Genoweffa Posted February 10, 2023 Share #1 Posted February 10, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) as per title Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 10, 2023 Posted February 10, 2023 Hi Genoweffa, Take a look here Shooting in colour with jpeg saved on other card in bw...is there a way?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted February 10, 2023 Share #2 Posted February 10, 2023 Shoot DNG+jpg. The DNG contains full colour information and the JPG can be set to B&W. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genoweffa Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share #3 Posted February 10, 2023 10 minutes ago, jaapv said: Shoot DNG+jpg. The DNG contains full colour information and the JPG can be set to B&W. Boss..I know...but the moment you set jpeg bw...evf goes bw from colour...and yes dng file will be saved in colour Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 10, 2023 Share #4 Posted February 10, 2023 Pedant alert: The DNG is not in colour - it only contains the information that can generate colour in an image file. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genoweffa Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share #5 Posted February 10, 2023 19 minutes ago, jaapv said: Pedant alert: The DNG is not in colour - it only contains the information that can generate colour in an image file. Boss...don't be picky...slow day in Holland? Have a hack to fool sl2...then share it Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 11, 2023 Share #6 Posted February 11, 2023 Nope. Better to split the JPG and DNG in the computer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genoweffa Posted February 11, 2023 Author Share #7 Posted February 11, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) This would speed up the process in case one wants to convert some shots into bw Shoot in colour, get ready jpegs in bw at the same time,,,so when you do editing and have a desire to convert some colour shots into bw, those jpgs would act as a guide...worth it or not? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 11, 2023 Share #8 Posted February 11, 2023 Well - that might be a personal preference, but I have never liked those in-camera conversions, I like to do it properly. A bit like airline fodder compared to home cooking. At any rate, why store them on two different cards? It is easy enough to separate the files in the computer. You can even import them into LR twice, first the DNGs, then the JPGs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kobra Posted February 11, 2023 Share #9 Posted February 11, 2023 Perhaps a bit OT but related, I like to save DNGs to one card and JPGs to the other. This should be faster as you can split the write threads across 2 cards, but I also feel like there is a bit of extra safety if one card should have issues. Ok, back to the topic... I don't know how to shoot in colour and save to B&W, and I don't recall any other camera system that does it or could do it. In fact, as far as I understand it, it would not be possible with any mirrorless system, as the design of mirrorless forces the EVF to be a view of the JPG image (whether the JPG actually gets saved or not is immaterial to the EVF). It is a topic of frustration for many RAW users, as they complain that they cannot fully see the full DR of the RAW image because the EVF is only displaying the view and histogram of the JPG. IOW, you may think you've exposed the RAW fully but may have clipped highlights that you could not see in the EVF (or LCD for that matter). Perhaps an analogy is that the RAW data is like the alphabet; it contains all the information needed to create any word you want, yet contains no words at all. The JPG is like the camera specific dictionary with the specific words that the maker chooses to include "already builtin". The RAW developer is the process to combine any or all letters of the alphabet to make any word you choose. TLDR; you cannot create a B&W JPG while trying to see colour in the EVF or LCD, and that is by design. The DNG is always a full set of the data, but waiting/needing to be converted and processed into whatever colour or B&W image you want, so it cannot be used to build the display, whereas the JPG profile selected is an already processed image that can be used to create the display within the EVF and LCD. As always, I stand to be corrected, and there may be some systems that bypass this. But, a question - why would you want to? Brad Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genoweffa Posted February 11, 2023 Author Share #10 Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, kobra said: But, a question - why would you want to? Brad post #7 bw jpeg being a 'preview' how +/- my shot in colour would look like in bw...if I like such a bw 'preview', then I add another master copy of my dng and do proper bw to my liking.. the way I see it, it is all about software.. Edited February 11, 2023 by Genoweffa Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kobra Posted February 11, 2023 Share #11 Posted February 11, 2023 11 minutes ago, Genoweffa said: post #7 bw jpeg being a 'preview' how +/- my shot in colour would look like in bw...if I like such a bw 'preview', then I add another master copy of my dng and do proper bw to my liking.. the way I see it, it is all about software.. Got it, thanks for the update. Yes, I agree that it is "all about software". In fact it is software inside the camera that is taking the RAW data from the sensor and creating an in-camera JPG image. But here is the issue - which ONE JPG would you like the camera to create? A colour one with a profile for a specific set of colour instructions, or a different one with specific B&W instructions? By design - and limited by the processing power of the camera - there are not multiple JPG profiles created; just ONE, and that same ONE JPG is used both for display and for output to storage (if chosen). Technically there might be more than one size of JPG created such as a smaller one for display and a larger one for storage, but the processing is only done once, based on the one profile selected. And, as I noted before, the in camera DNG cannot be used for display as it is purely RAW data which would display gibberish to our eyes. What you are asking for is that a manufacturer would have the camera process 2 separate JPG images so that you can choose which one to use for display and which different one to use for output to storage. I don't believe this has ever been done, and I can see many reasons why it would not be practical for a manufacturer to do so. The reason that comes first to mind is that when a new camera model comes out with increased hardware processing power, it goes to improving things that are in great demand; such as better AF and better video capabilities; both of which will use any and all new processing power and then some. (an example is the difference between Sony A7R4 and A7R5 - increased power seems to have gone to improving the above items). I hope that makes sense and again I stand to be corrected if there is a camera model where they have found a way to do this. Brad Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 11, 2023 Share #12 Posted February 11, 2023 The point is that the JPG file is created from the data contained in the DNG file. In fact, the process always takes place even when you shoot DNG only to produce the image on your LCD screen. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don’t know of any camera writing the files to different cards. I think that it would be a complicated bit of software for a feature with rather limited usefulness. Exactly the same effect can be created in the computer. When I open Bridge my DNG and JPG get displayed side by side with the activated file on my secondary screen. What more could you want? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem331 Posted February 11, 2023 Share #13 Posted February 11, 2023 What is the point of the second SD card in non-professional use? I just use it to back up all the DNGs for safety. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
evikne Posted February 11, 2023 Share #14 Posted February 11, 2023 9 hours ago, Genoweffa said: Shoot in colour, get ready jpegs in bw at the same time,,,so when you do editing and have a desire to convert some colour shots into bw, those jpgs would act as a guide...worth it or not? Lightroom Classic has 17 built-in B&W profiles in addition to the standard Adobe B&W, Adobe Monochrome and the embedded Leica B&W profile. How can a camera-made JPEG act as a guide when there are so many other possibilities? BTW, personally I also have a lot of other B&W (and color) profiles from other suppliers, with even more choices, and don't want to lock myself into one single look. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansvons Posted February 11, 2023 Share #15 Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) Because we are in the middle of it, I don't get the JPEG shooting at all in a system like the SL-line. People invest literally thousands and thousand into glass and cut off the pipeline to a good image in the middle of the process. Edited February 11, 2023 by hansvons 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelu2010 Posted February 11, 2023 Share #16 Posted February 11, 2023 Hey, i Shot raw in bw. i See bw i get both and I get the jpg too. And to mer tja absolut fastest way of posting images is either using the app > which lead to a set of way to convert to bw and if this doesn’t work I take a picture of the screen and send it. but I never was in a situation where I had to speed that much up. the only place I can think of is a sport event / wedding / accident…. maybe 🤔 you could help us with “to speed up” thanxs Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oliviersm Posted February 11, 2023 Share #17 Posted February 11, 2023 15 hours ago, Genoweffa said: as per title In short...there is not, if you are looking to have the camera rendered jpgs. Interesting question though. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardC Posted February 11, 2023 Share #18 Posted February 11, 2023 This is probably different from the original ask, but I usually set my SL to B&W JPEGS. I find that it helps with composition. As others have explained, the files are in colour when you import them into your favourite raw converter. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpitt Posted February 11, 2023 Share #19 Posted February 11, 2023 7 minutes ago, BernardC said: This is probably different from the original ask, but I usually set my SL to B&W JPEGS. I find that it helps with composition. As others have explained, the files are in colour when you import them into your favourite raw converter. I often use DNG+B&W Jpegs for the M8 and M9. With the M8 especially they are so good it is sometimes hard to improve them starting from a DNG. It is reassuring to have the DNG if you want color or different PP of the B&W. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kobra Posted February 11, 2023 Share #20 Posted February 11, 2023 5 hours ago, jaapv said: The point is that the JPG file is created from the data contained in the DNG file. In fact, the process always takes place even when you shoot DNG only to produce the image on your LCD screen. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don’t know of any camera writing the files to different cards. I think that it would be a complicated bit of software for a feature with rather limited usefulness. Exactly the same effect can be created in the computer. When I open Bridge my DNG and JPG get displayed side by side with the activated file on my secondary screen. What more could you want? I'm not sure if I completely understand so will state it as I know it - perhaps it is the same, but here goes... the SL2 and SL2-S have dual slots, so they can write files to different cards at the same time. There are several options for the second card, including a backup, or an overflow, or choosing to write DNG files on one card and JPG files on the other card. I agree that setting the camera to DNG + JPG (whether to one card or two cards) will allow all the flexibility to create final images in B&W and/or colour. I also agree with those who say that using JPG only seems to be wasting a lot of potential information. However, the question may remain - how often is that extra information contained in the DNG required to develop a wonderful image? In my experience, I have found that a properly exposed and composed image is often the biggest determining factor on the quality of the end image; and done right, in many cases, the OOC JPG may be all that is needed. Brad Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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