Light Lens Lab 50mm f/2 "Speed Panchro II" for Leica M

[Huss]

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9 hours ago, Al Brown said:

I meant used prices going up, new prices will certainly climb all the time.

Well, I think used prices can go up, as the new prices are going up.  Taking advantage of the price increase with the new lenses.

As for the SPII - I am surprised as to how I've lost interest in it - and I'm a lens slut!  The images I've seen have been so underwhelming, with the reviewer yelling out 'cinematic' for every low contrast hazy image.  What makes an image 'cinematic' is the scene and lighting in combination with the wider format.  And the scene needs to tell a story - because cinema.

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[sometimesmaybe]

22 minutes ago, Huss said:

I'm a lens slut!

maybe a lens Huss-y? 😉

[Huss]

Just now, sometimesmaybe said:

maybe a lens Huss-y? 😉

that's a given.

[satijntje]

The black paint version is shipping now 

 

[intangiblethings]

I just dropped my M10-P last night getting out of the cab haha.

Good thing the lens hood took most of the impact (and that the design is secured via the screw-on design IMO). There are two pretty beefy scratches with the brass coming in from underneath. 

[hdmesa]

The black paint SP II I just received today from Popflash is an updated version (V2). Only this unit was a V2 – their silver and black paint with brassing copies had no version labels, so they are still V1s. Popflash is asking LLL what was updated – will report back when I hear something. Will post some shots with the V2 in the next few days.

 

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[Almizilero]

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vor 12 Stunden schrieb hdmesa:

The black paint SP II I just received today from Popflash is an updated version (V2). Only this unit was a V2 – their silver and black paint with brassing copies had no version labels, so they are still V1s. Popflash is asking LLL what was updated – will report back when I hear something. Will post some shots with the V2 in the next few days.

 

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That's interesting. Maybe it's just a new batch after the first 998 units sold out, maybe they addressed the differences you saw between the prototypes and the V1 units. Looking forwards to hear your thoughts!

Lovely instagram by the way, I just noticed your signature and started following
For some reason it's really hard to process that you actually live in this beautiful landscape that I only know from movies and nature docus 🤣

[hdmesa]

Some quick snapshots + crops at f/2 close and f/8.

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[rtai]

On 7/2/2023 at 3:17 PM, Huss said:

Well, I think used prices can go up, as the new prices are going up.  Taking advantage of the price increase with the new lenses.

As for the SPII - I am surprised as to how I've lost interest in it - and I'm a lens slut!  The images I've seen have been so underwhelming, with the reviewer yelling out 'cinematic' for every low contrast hazy image.  What makes an image 'cinematic' is the scene and lighting in combination with the wider format.  And the scene needs to tell a story - because cinema.

Up close wide open back lit shots yield the most cinematic look from this type of lens. Not my shooting style. Stopped down it’s like any other low contrast lens. I own a Cooke 100mm Deep Field Panchro modded for Hasselblad and it’s purely a portrait lens.

[hdmesa]

LLL SP II (V2) -|- GFX 50SII in 35mm crop mode

– – –

click to be able to see actual sharpness

f/2

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Crops from f/2 to f/8

 

f/2

Crops from f/2 to f/8

 

f/2

Crops from f/2 to f/8

[Anthony Miller]

So I got to try the Speed Panchro today. I was surprised that it was still smaller than I imagined (until you put the hood on LOL) I like the Bokeh and glow at f2 and by f2.8 it is already approaching the sharpness I need to let it function as an everyday lens. Liked both my color and B&W images. I did notice that when stopped down around f11 to f22 there was a central haze or fog in most images, more evident in color than in the B&W. Tried it with the hood and without, bright sun and overcast and more importantly with the sun behind me rather than in front where it could have been glancing across the lens.

This haze/fog was surprising under these conditions. Has anyone else experienced this on their Speed Panchro?

I did decide to examine mine with a bright LED light from the rear and noticed a considerable swirly residue or deposit on the back of the front element, a slight bit on the front and seemingly both sides of the built in UV filter. If this was not a new lens I would have described what I saw as the beginnings of fungus, but certain it is more a concentration of fine dust, possibly caught on some oil or fingerprint residue in on the elements.

Wondering if it is the residue that is giving me the fog haze (even when not shooting towards the sun) or something else inherent in the design or execution of the lens. If it were not for this fog/flare in my images stopped down (and an issue on a brand new lens) I would be more than thrilled with this one. I also own the 8-element and the Elcan and both perform well for their designs and perfectly clean glass.

Your thoughts?

 

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by Anthony Miller

[Huss]

16 hours ago, Anthony Miller said:

So I got to try the Speed Panchro today. I was surprised that it was still smaller than I imagined (until you put the hood on LOL) I like the Bokeh and glow at f2 and by f2.8 it is already approaching the sharpness I need to let it function as an everyday lens. Liked both my color and B&W images. I did notice that when stopped down around f11 to f22 there was a central haze or fog in most images, more evident in color than in the B&W. Tried it with the hood and without, bright sun and overcast and more importantly with the sun behind me rather than in front where it could have been glancing across the lens.

This haze/fog was surprising under these conditions. Has anyone else experienced this on their Speed Panchro?

I did decide to examine mine with a bright LED light from the rear and noticed a considerable swirly residue or deposit on the back of the front element, a slight bit on the front and seemingly both sides of the built in UV filter. If this was not a new lens I would have described what I saw as the beginnings of fungus, but certain it is more a concentration of fine dust, possibly caught on some oil or fingerprint residue in on the elements.

Wondering if it is the residue that is giving me the fog haze (even when not shooting towards the sun) or something else inherent in the design or execution of the lens. If it were not for this fog/flare in my images stopped down (and an issue on a brand new lens) I would be more than thrilled with this one. I also own the 8-element and the Elcan and both perform well for their designs and perfectly clean glass.

Your thoughts?

 

 

That central haze starts at f8 and LLL has acknowledged it as internal flare due to the lens design.  So yours was not a one off.  It's another thing that made me pass on this lens, as most of my shooting is at f8-f11 on sunny days by the beach.

[catacore]

On 7/14/2023 at 6:44 PM, hdmesa said:

LLL SP II (V2) -|- GFX 50SII in 35mm crop mode

– – –

click to be able to see actual sharpness

f/2

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Crops from f/2 to f/8

 

f/2

Crops from f/2 to f/8

 

f/2

Crops from f/2 to f/8

So how do you find this v2 lens' rendering in comparison to the pre-production unit you got to test few months back? Do you feel there is a different rendering vs. the v1?

[hdmesa]

4 hours ago, catacore said:

So how do you find this v2 lens' rendering in comparison to the pre-production unit you got to test few months back? Do you feel there is a different rendering vs. the v1?

LLL told me the V2 is simply an extension of the serial numbers after they hit 999/999 on the first batch. No differences between the unlabeled lenses and the V2 lenses.

[Anthony Miller]

8 hours ago, Huss said:

That central haze starts at f8 and LLL has acknowledged it as internal flare due to the lens design.  So yours was not a one off.  It's another thing that made me pass on this lens, as most of my shooting is at f8-f11 on sunny days by the beach.

Thank you, I did not know that going in. Yes, f8 is about where I first started to see it, increasing greatly with each stop up to f22. I was really surprised as my tests were done with me standing in full shade under a pavilion so no direct light could hit the lens. I mainly wanted the lens for f2 to f5.6 but why have a lens where the rest of the stops are an issue.

It did lead me to check the lens with the LED only to discover a considerable "fuzz" inside. Looked more like dust than the milky white haze of a vintage lens and prompted me to initiate a return. Lens is on its way back now. 

I appreciate the insight on this issue and was not aware of it before. Had I know that up front I would not even had ordered.

[catacore]

9 hours ago, hdmesa said:

LLL told me the V2 is simply an extension of the serial numbers after they hit 999/999 on the first batch. No differences between the unlabeled lenses and the V2 lenses.

That means this is not the rendering you are after. IIRC you liked the pre-production unit's rendering....or, actually, do you find them quite different, in the end (v2 vs. pre-production)?

[Huss]

13 hours ago, Anthony Miller said:

Thank you, I did not know that going in. Yes, f8 is about where I first started to see it, increasing greatly with each stop up to f22. I was really surprised as my tests were done with me standing in full shade under a pavilion so no direct light could hit the lens. I mainly wanted the lens for f2 to f5.6 but why have a lens where the rest of the stops are an issue.

It did lead me to check the lens with the LED only to discover a considerable "fuzz" inside. Looked more like dust than the milky white haze of a vintage lens and prompted me to initiate a return. Lens is on its way back now. 

I appreciate the insight on this issue and was not aware of it before. Had I know that up front I would not even had ordered.

LLL reply to a customer complaint (from Mr.Leica review comments)

This is a normal phenomenon with original SPII as the internal reflection has caused the lens to have diffraction under low T-Stops. It is advise to not shoot SPII under F8. It was only very recently that we discovered this phenomenon. Either our production and distribution network was not aware of this phenomenon due to the lens usually being shot under f/8.

 

[Anthony Miller]

1 hour ago, Huss said:

LLL reply to a customer complaint (from Mr.Leica review comments)

This is a normal phenomenon with original SPII as the internal reflection has caused the lens to have diffraction under low T-Stops. It is advise to not shoot SPII under F8. It was only very recently that we discovered this phenomenon. Either our production and distribution network was not aware of this phenomenon due to the lens usually being shot under f/8.

 

Thanks. I did send LLL a question and will likely receive a similar response. It is interesting that this was not mentioned before and had I known I likely would not have purchased it. I have other 50s but did like the rendering but for the price if I cannot use it at every aperture when needed it is not one I can justify.

 

It seems the internal residue or smudges in my example then are not the cause of what I am seeing in my images but their own separate issue.

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[Huss]

3 hours ago, Anthony Miller said:

Thanks. I did send LLL a question and will likely receive a similar response. It is interesting that this was not mentioned before and had I known I likely would not have purchased it. I have other 50s but did like the rendering but for the price if I cannot use it at every aperture when needed it is not one I can justify.

 

It seems the internal residue or smudges in my example then are not the cause of what I am seeing in my images but their own separate issue.

It seems because all the testers have done is shoot it between f2 and f4.

The internal residue or smudges that you see?  If you click on this link, and scroll down to the pics of who is putting the lenses together - it does not seem like a very clean environment.  Street clothes, no masks, no hair covering etc

 

https://g7j9aapxfhtlh9uu-65146650858.shopifypreview.com/blogs/upcoming-project/light-lens-lab-35mm-f-1-2-11873-update-i?syclid=ciu1bjqusvihpm7itsu0&utm_campaign=emailmarketing_146750013674&utm_medium=email&utm_source=shopify_email

[catacore]

Prompted by the last comments here, I went back to my LLL SPII pictures and had another look at those shot between f/8 and f/16, and I still maintain my opinion which was expressed in post #162: "tack sharp". I can't see any diminishing sharpness in the centre of those images. Yes, the contrast is not the best, but the sharpness is there, pretty uniform across the whole frame.

Nevertheless, this was done out of curiosity, since I'm done with the M system. Don't want/need to prove anything. And my LLL SPII is sold, anyway. Maybe just sample variation.....

L.E. I pretty much liked this lens a lot. My Voigt 50/1.5 II has not seen any usage after I bought the LLL SPII.

Edited July 28, 2023 by catacore