Leica 35/2 and 50/2 SL ASPH lenses?

[SJH]

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Interesting to see all the thoughts around the comparisons to the Panasonics IQ wise but I wounder here if the real competition is with the Sigma Contemporary range, very good metal build quality, aperture ring, metal hoods, F2's and in particular the 24mm and 65mm (and soon to be 50mm?) seem to get really excellent reviews all for around £500 to £600 in the UK. I'd be very interested to see a comparison as I'm wondering if there really is any differences between the SL Summicrons and the Sigma Contemporary range.

You can also go with the Sigma 1.4's and really good image quality from the 35mm 1.2 and new 50mm 1.4 for not much more over the Contemporary range e.g. the new 50mm 1.4 was deemed to be on a similar level to the new Sony 50mm 1.4 in Christopher Frosts recent YouTube review. The 50mm 1.4 also has the new Sigma fast focus mechanism which should work out well with the PDAF equipped SL3.

I'm slightly concerned as well that my older SL lenses will struggle on the PDAF equipped SL3 compared to the latest SL Summicrons and Sigma range, the 35mm SL APO for example sounds like a cement mixer when focusing in AFC and well the 50mm 1.4 Summilux was never that fast on anything  

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[TAFFY]

11 hours ago, thatkatmat said:

Actually, I've owned all the Leica SL lenses except the 16-35 so far and a few Sigma's. My favorites are the 35 and 75 APO's and the 90-280. The AF on the new ASPH's is faster than any SL lens I've used, it's also silent which is nice. They are 1/2 as light and balance better. Held the body and lens in my hands with a wrist strap for 2 hours running around in the woods and definitely notice a BIG difference in heft. So light!

These lenses are SHARP boys and girls, I feel like when I'm shooting the 35, it might as well be the APO, I mean, except a little CA in the highlights (which I don't mind and can be deleted). Combine the minimum Focus distance with the sharpness of these lenses and you get some interesting creamy new looks.

I shot scenes with seriously busy backgrounds and both these lenses melt them away...Anyways...Maybe they are Panasonic designs, I don't care, they feel like full on bad ass Summicrons to me. I see zero reasons (for me) to buy an APO 35 or 50 SL with these 2 lenses out.

Side note...The build is 100% SL...they are built to last.

Here's all the shots from today in 1 folder...1st 15 or so are the 35, the rest are the 50

https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjAu38C

 

 

 

Thanks for your inputs on this!  I'm glad you're enjoying the less!

[Simone_DF]

2 hours ago, SJH said:

I'm slightly concerned as well that my older SL lenses will struggle on the PDAF equipped SL3 compared to the latest SL Summicrons and Sigma range, the 35mm SL APO for example sounds like a cement mixer when focusing in AFC and well the 50mm 1.4 Summilux was never that fast on anything  

I don't think the APOs will struggle. They will most likely be a tad slower, but that's because there's a lot of extra glass to move. You can't have it all, that extra image goodness kick comes at a price. That said, I don't find the APOs to be slow to focus.

[thatkatmat]

3 hours ago, SJH said:

Interesting to see all the thoughts around the comparisons to the Panasonics IQ wise but I wounder here if the real competition is with the Sigma Contemporary range, very good metal build quality, aperture ring, metal hoods, F2's and in particular the 24mm and 65mm (and soon to be 50mm?) seem to get really excellent reviews all for around £500 to £600 in the UK. I'd be very interested to see a comparison as I'm wondering if there really is any differences between the SL Summicrons and the Sigma Contemporary range.

 

I bought the Sigma 35/2C about 4 days before the Leica arrived at my local store. So, I didn't use it much.

But, while I happen to have both the Sigma 35/2 C and the new Leica 35/2 ASPH...I think I'll do a comparison. The problem with doing comparisons on forums is that I do them based on what I'm looking for in a lens. Everyone else has their own wishlist.  

Anyways...If I have time.

Here's a couple portraits with the new 50 Cron on the SL2. No processing on the last one, minimal usual tweaks on the top.

SL2 with SUMMICRON-SL 1:2/50 ASPH.
ƒ/2.0 50.0 mm 1/100 4000

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100% crop

Edited March 2, 2023 by thatkatmat

[kobra]

6 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

How did you reach this “clear” conclusion? Can you provide samples of the noticeable differences between the Pana and non-APO?

As clear as usual - based on subjective opinions of people posting on forums and worth the price paid for it. Anything beyond that seems to be attempts by users to do objective tests, which are then picked apart by other users as not scientific enough for their tastes. 

I stated what my opinion is based on - focus fall off and quality of bokeh while remaining sharp, and those are the differences that are clear to me as I examine images uploaded to various sites. 

To dig deeper, searching this and other popular forums will give you all the 'data' you need (tongue firmly in cheek) to form your own subjective opinion. Clear enough?

Brad

[Ken Abrahams]

7 hours ago, thatkatmat said:

I bought the Sigma 35/2C about 4 days before the Leica arrived at my local store. So, I didn't use it much.

But, while I happen to have both the Sigma 35/2 C and the new Leica 35/2 ASPH...I think I'll do a comparison. The problem with doing comparisons on forums is that I do them based on what I'm looking for in a lens. Everyone else has their own wishlist.  

Anyways...If I have time.

Here's a couple portraits with the new 50 Cron on the SL2. No processing on the last one, minimal usual tweaks on the top.

SL2 with SUMMICRON-SL 1:2/50 ASPH.
ƒ/2.0 50.0 mm 1/100 4000

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100% crop

Thanks for posting these 50 Summicron Asph Lens images. The bokeh looks more than acceptable and the image quality good however the smaller sized images here make it harder to assess. I am expecting a copy of the lens to be delivered soon along with the SL2s kit deal by Leica. The Apo Summicrons are truly a "work of art" by Leica and I wouldn't expect anywhere near that level of optics for the smaller Asph lens. It is good however that the lens says "Leica" and in that way the lenses, which are made in Portugal will/should carry Leica's aim for par excellence. Can't wait for minto arrive.  

Edited March 2, 2023 by Ken Abrahams
sp

[Kristofferpaulsen]

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On 3/2/2023 at 8:42 AM, thatkatmat said:

A few with the new 50mm ASPH from my daily commute on my SL2...I believe these are all wide open.

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100% Crop

1. Ain't nothin' to sniff at there! These look great!

2. I gotta ask.. if that's your commute, where do you live and where do you work????

[Kristofferpaulsen]

19 hours ago, MediaFotografie said:

wow, Chateau d'Yquem - very fine drink for the cook!

Yeah was lucky enough to be shooting for them.. there was a bottle of '67 in the cellar that made me nervous to stroll past!

[Kristofferpaulsen]

20 hours ago, jaapv said:

Thjis forum is not the place for nasty, snide and ad-hominem discussions, especially completely OT ones. Pplease be respectful.. 9 posts removed.

But not the post where someone blithely told me I don't know what I'm talking about, even when they were demonstrably incorrect? 

[kobra]

33 minutes ago, Kristofferpaulsen said:

But not the post where someone blithely told me I don't know what I'm talking about, even when they were demonstrably incorrect? 

I know the one you reference, and I was offended for you... I think it's gone now, and glad to see that. 

I admire your work, and glad you persist in posting your thoughts here! 

As to these new lenses; I'm very interested, and it is tempting to go for one of them compared to an APO... OTOH, I decided to go all in with Leica and trade away my Fuji gear, so as the British saying goes, I'm a bit "in for a penny, in for a pound" now. I have the SL50 APO and am trying hard to resist getting the 35... but I'm weak  

Brad 

[Kristofferpaulsen]

28 minutes ago, kobra said:

I know the one you reference, and I was offended for you... I think it's gone now, and glad to see that. 

I admire your work, and glad you persist in posting your thoughts here! 

As to these new lenses; I'm very interested, and it is tempting to go for one of them compared to an APO... OTOH, I decided to go all in with Leica and trade away my Fuji gear, so as the British saying goes, I'm a bit "in for a penny, in for a pound" now. I have the SL50 APO and am trying hard to resist getting the 35... but I'm weak  

Brad 

thanks Brad.. it just irritated me in the complete dismissal of my experience. Anyway. Enough of that. Appreciate your kind words!!

 

I just got the call saying that the lenses are available in Melbourne.. They're offering me both which I know i absolutely can't afford.. ach!

[Ivar B]

I am in little doubt that there will be comparison reviews in the near future so we can reach more solidly founded conclusions. I remember many years back when visting Leica that it was said that Leica did some cherry picking and received the best performing units for themselves. Some sample variation is unavoidable for all, I expect. If this is the case now, I have no idea.

It does show the enormous brand value of the Leica name, though. The Summicron-SL 2/50 costs about as much as the Panasonic S Pro 1,4/50mm, which optically is clearly superior to the Panasonic S 1.8/50mm which shares the optical formula with the Leica lens, and is also extremly well built. I guess that some users are put off by the weight and size, though. 

[S/W]

Since the SL Apo Summicrone and the alternatives 1.4/50 from Sigma and Panasonic were too big and heavy for me, I first bought the Panasonic 1.8/50 for the SL2-S. While optically it was sufficiently good for me, the feel did not appeal to me at all. Therefore, I was very pleased that Leica has now released the two Summicrons 2.0/35 ASPH and 2.0/50 ASPH in a nice guise. I immediately bought the Leica Summicron SL 2.0/50, got it on Wednesday and took the first test pictures with it today. The images in Capture One (23) still last really surprised me positively. The light was not very good today, so the results surprised me all the more.

@thatkatmat, the picture (and the 100% crop) of your wife (?) is really very nice!

In addition to a feel that is now sufficient for me, the image quality is also as I expect it to be, and that with the weight of the lens. That's it! Now I hope for more in this weight class and will put cheating on hold again.

The attached images are developed in Capture One Pro 23 and scaled down accordingly (they look much sharper in their original size):

Frankfurt am Main/Germany
 

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Both photos: Leica SL2-S with the Summicron SL 2.0/50 ASPH at f/2.0.

Leica SL2-S * Leica Summicron SL 2.0/50 Asph * f/5.6 * 1/250 sec * ISO 200

 

[AZN]

It would be interesting to see a comparision between the new Leica Summicron 35mm L-mount and the Sigma Contemporary 35mm f/2 L-mount

https://photofocus.com/reviews/sigma-35mm-f-2-dg-dn-close-to-perfection/

Anyone?

[thatkatmat]

5 hours ago, AZN said:

It would be interesting to see a comparision between the new Leica Summicron 35mm L-mount and the Sigma Contemporary 35mm f/2 L-mount

https://photofocus.com/reviews/sigma-35mm-f-2-dg-dn-close-to-perfection/

Anyone?

I have both, I did a quick and dirty test and will probably do a more thorough comparison when I get some better weather. There is not much difference. Both are very good. The Leica is sharper in the center, bokeh balls are cleaner, (no onion rings, not that there's ,much in the Sigma either), the field of view is a little narrower and somehow, looks a little more 3d.

[kobra]

10 hours ago, S/W said:

Since the SL Apo Summicrone and the alternatives 1.4/50 from Sigma and Panasonic were too big and heavy for me, I first bought the Panasonic 1.8/50 for the SL2-S. While optically it was sufficiently good for me, the feel did not appeal to me at all. Therefore, I was very pleased that Leica has now released the two Summicrons 2.0/35 ASPH and 2.0/50 ASPH in a nice guise. I immediately bought the Leica Summicron SL 2.0/50, got it on Wednesday and took the first test pictures with it today. The images in Capture One (23) still last really surprised me positively. The light was not very good today, so the results surprised me all the more.

@thatkatmat, the picture (and the 100% crop) of your wife (?) is really very nice!

In addition to a feel that is now sufficient for me, the image quality is also as I expect it to be, and that with the weight of the lens. That's it! Now I hope for more in this weight class and will put cheating on hold again.

The attached images are developed in Capture One Pro 23 and scaled down accordingly (they look much sharper in their original size):

 

Very nice photos, thanks for sharing! 

Since you have had both, are you saying the image quality of the new Leica 50 is superior to the Panasonic 50/1.8? It seems that is what you are hinting at, but I want to understand better. 

Thanks!

Brad

[S/W]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb kobra:

Very nice photos, thanks for sharing! 

Since you have had both, are you saying the image quality of the new Leica 50 is superior to the Panasonic 50/1.8? It seems that is what you are hinting at, but I want to understand better. 

Thanks!

Brad

Hi Brad, thank you! This is not so easy for me to answer. I'm not a tester, and I'm even less interested in comparing MTF curves. I rather have the feeling that "my" Leica Summicron 2.0/50 Asph appears a little sharper than the Panasonic at a comparable aperture of 2.0 (but we shouldn't fool ourselves, they are the same at f/5.6). But this may also be due to the fact that the Leica lenses are just also matched to the Leica cameras and Panasonic to Panasonic, but this is very subjective feeling. But even if they were the same in terms of imaging performance, the feel of both 50s is miles apart and that alone is worth to me(!) this now called surcharge (but also no more!). I have now found the 50iger for the SL2-S and am curious what Leica will bring in this price range. 

Best regards
Stefan

Edited March 5, 2023 by S/W

[Simone_DF]

5 minutes ago, S/W said:

Hi Brad, thank you! This is not so easy for me to answer. I'm not a tester, and I'm even less interested in comparing MTF curves. I rather have the feeling that "my" Leica Summicron 2.0/50 Asph appears a little sharper than the Panasonic at a comparable aperture of 2.0 (but we shouldn't fool ourselves, they are the same at f/5.6). But this may also be due to the fact that the Leica lenses are just also matched to the Leica cameras and Panasonic to Panasonic, but this is very subjective feeling. But even if they were the same in terms of imaging performance, the feel of both 50s is miles apart and that alone is worth to me(!) this now called surcharge (but also no more!). I have now found the 50iger for the SL2-S and am curious what Leica will bring in this price range. 

Thank you!

Do you happen to find any difference in rendering? (bokeh, general rendering, etc etc)

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[S/W]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Simone_DF:

Thank you!

Do you happen to find any difference in rendering? (bokeh, general rendering, etc etc)

As I said, I'm not an MTF peeper and I haven't directly compared both lenses 1:1 in the same situation yet, but to my feeling the Summicron SL 2.0/50 ASPH seems a tiny bit more harmonious at 2.0-2.8 than the Panasonic 1.8/50. It could perhaps be because the lens is slightly better matched to the body ...? From f/5.6 I can definitely no longer perceive any differences subjectively, both deliver here (but which lens does not do that nowadays at this aperture). However, I also perceive the feel up to f/22 ... plastic versus metal feel ... The price difference is not insignificant, but by Leica standards, the new 50 seems comparatively cheap (like the unfortunately discontinued Summarite on the M).

[andybarton]

Ok, folks. That’s enough name calling and fighting, thanks very much.