SL3 Rumors

[Leicaflex]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

vor 56 Minuten schrieb Simone_DF:

Because post #399 is about how a SL depreciates less than a A9. 

Also, where did you get that data? I couldn't find a body-only SL2 on B&H or MBP.com to compare their prices

Ebay.
MBP lets you compare Leica SL2-s (3600€) with Sony A9 II (3200€) – same condition. Price new: Sony 5400€ / Leica 4500€ … even better.

 

[LocalHero1953]

FWIW......

SL2-S unsold at auction on ebay at £3000 (BIN £4200 LOL). Looked good: boxed etc, slight mark on one corner, otherwise clean; couldn't see anything obviously wrong with the private seller.

I've been wondering about a second body, and was looking for bodies at that price, but decided I don't need a second - yet.

Edited July 23, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[Simone_DF]

On 7/23/2023 at 4:17 PM, Leicaflex said:

Ebay.
MBP lets you compare Leica SL2-s (3600€) with Sony A9 II (3200€) – same condition. Price new: Sony 5400€ / Leica 4500€ … even better.

Ebay is not a good comparison tool. What is "near mint" for me may be not for another seller, and sellers may price their items differently for different reasons, like a quick sale etc. That's why I was using official dealers, because, at least on paper, they do inspect the cameras carefully and they are coherent with their prices and assessments.

But you're right, the A9II has badly depreciated. I think it's a special case, since it was superseded within 2 years by the A1. I think Sony didn't have the A1 ready for prime time at the time, and released the half-assed A9II with just some minor upgrade in the interim, causing the camera to depreciate badly once the A1 was released. If you have a look at comparisons, the first gen A9 is still well regarded, while the A9II is not, because for the price difference, it's better to invest into an A1. 

I swear Sony marketing is a mess. I'm glad I don't buy their cameras anymore. 

[1Haufen]

I don't know if this has already been a topic here: has there been any consideration of what a new SL3 or SL3-s might cost?

[frame-it]

1 minute ago, 1Haufen said:

I don't know if this has already been a topic here: has there been any consideration of what a new SL3 or SL3-s might cost?

i guess around ~6000$

[trickness]

On 7/28/2023 at 4:44 AM, frame-it said:

i guess around ~6000$

I would think just a little bit higher because they wouldn’t want to price it the same as the Q3. I’m guessing $6495, at least at intro. Much higher than that and I think it’s going to be a tough sell to anyone but Leica diehards

Edited August 2, 2023 by trickness

[Guest]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I predict it'll come in at just under 7k, while the current SL2 will drop to about $500 to entice those that have stricter budgets. Or perhaps give discounts for an SL2 bundle.

As for specs, they are most likely to use the same 60mp sensor as in the M11, with the ability to reduce to 36mp, and 18mp. They may give us black and silver options upon release, rather than adding the silver option later, as they are doing now with the current SL2. They may also change the texture style of the rubberized grip area. Phase detection  and an improved IBIS and EVF might be something that comes along too. I'm not sure they'll include a tilt-screen, as that doesn't really go along with their mission. That doesn't concern me. Those are prone to issues anyway. What I would truly welcome would be a built in SSD. My Hasselblad X2D has 1TB built in, and my M11 has 64gb. I'd love to see something between the two. That would greatly improve transfer speeds. These improvements would be enough for me to upgrade my current SL2.

[trickness]

2 hours ago, JaySD said:

I predict it'll come in at just under 7k, while the current SL2 will drop to about $500 to entice those that have stricter budgets. Or perhaps give discounts for an SL2 bundle.

As for specs, they are most likely to use the same 60mp sensor as in the M11, with the ability to reduce to 36mp, and 18mp. They may give us black and silver options upon release, rather than adding the silver option later, as they are doing now with the current SL2. They may also change the texture style of the rubberized grip area. Phase detection  and an improved IBIS and EVF might be something that comes along too. I'm not sure they'll include a tilt-screen, as that doesn't really go along with their mission. That doesn't concern me. Those are prone to issues anyway. What I would truly welcome would be a built in SSD. My Hasselblad X2D has 1TB built in, and my M11 has 64gb. I'd love to see something between the two. That would greatly improve transfer speeds. These improvements would be enough for me to upgrade my current SL2.

My biggest hope for the SL3 is that, unlike the M11, it doesn't launch with a laundry list of bugs that make the camera unreliable. All the new tech thats in the M11 and (to a lesser degree) Q3 seem to have made those cameras very hit and miss. I've had my SL2 freeze on me maybe 3 times in three years of ownership and heavy use. Everyone I know who owns an M11 has had to deal with intermittent freezing, even after firmware updates and swapping SD cards. Really hope the SL3 beta testers are doubling down their efforts.

[Simone_DF]

18 hours ago, trickness said:

All the new tech thats in the M11 and (to a lesser degree) Q3 seem to have made those cameras very hit and miss. 

I disagree. New tech doesn't make cameras hit and miss. The lack of proper QA and releasing firmware that is clearly still a beta and not ready for prime time does.  

[frame-it]

18 hours ago, trickness said:

Really hope the SL3 beta testers are doubling down their efforts.

and hopefully Testing everything in AWB and Auto ISO

i find it hilarious that some people stick to auto iso then complain about exposure issues, or AWB then complain about color.

auto everything? just use a phone

Edited August 4, 2023 by frame-it

[trickness]

58 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

I disagree. New tech doesn't make cameras hit and miss. The lack of proper QA and releasing firmware that is clearly still a beta and not ready for prime time does.  

yeah that's for sure part of it - but they made SO MANY changes at the same time in the M11 one wonders whether they bit off more than they can chew, especially given the compact size of the M and all they have to cram in there. Sure is a lot more room in the SL bodies to pack in the tech, and certainly less potential issues with heat dissipation.

[Simone_DF]

13 minutes ago, trickness said:

yeah that's for sure part of it - but they made SO MANY changes at the same time in the M11 one wonders whether they bit off more than they can chew, especially given the compact size of the M and all they have to cram in there. Sure is a lot more room in the SL bodies to pack in the tech, and certainly less potential issues with heat dissipation.

Clearly their QA department and processes need improvement and / or more manpower, but that's for Leica to resolve. It's a conundrum. If you won't pack more features, then customers won't upgrade their camera and customers from other brands may not be interested either and you risk damaging sales. But pack enough changes and you risk introducing broken features or worse. There's a fine balancing line out there, and Leica screwed it up. However, other companies seems to do just fine, all considered. Mind you, bugs happen and will happen again, that's for sure, but camera freezes are a step beyond normal, especially at this price point. 

[goodbokeh]

Given Leica's recent modest price increases and even deceases on new 2022 & 23 products here in the US I would think $6995 for the SL3 would be close.

On the topic of new camera teething problems I think a better model than the M11 to compare with would be the Q3. This is because the SL3 and Q3 certainly have platforms with many Panasonic-Lumix components. From my experience that is a good thing. Yes the Q3 has had teething problems, we'll see how today's Q3 1.2.0 firmware gets things straightened out.

BTW, I guess you can say I voted with my $ and didn't wait for the SL3 but instead recently bought a Silver SL2. I own the Sony A7R5, so sensor & AF wise I know much of what you are waiting for. For my style of photography it's really not a big deal at all. Now I have a proven SL2 platform for my travels with no teething worries. Unless Leica's 60MP sensor stack saves the day, upon PDAF pixel refection, the SL2's 47MP CDAF sensor will show benefits you will discover later on.

[trickness]

2 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Clearly their QA department and processes need improvement and / or more manpower, but that's for Leica to resolve. It's a conundrum. If you won't pack more features, then customers won't upgrade their camera and customers from other brands may not be interested either and you risk damaging sales. But pack enough changes and you risk introducing broken features or worse. There's a fine balancing line out there, and Leica screwed it up. However, other companies seems to do just fine, all considered. Mind you, bugs happen and will happen again, that's for sure, but camera freezes are a step beyond normal, especially at this price point. 

Agree

[JohnathanLovm]

I’m secretly hoping Leica surprises us with leaf-shutter lenses for SL. 

[frame-it]

1 hour ago, JohnathanLovm said:

I’m secretly hoping Leica surprises us with leaf-shutter lenses for SL. 

was just thinking about that the other day when someone mentioned phase detect Af, and i wondered if the existing SL lens motors can handle the sudden speeds or would they go the S lens way with broken gears

[BernardC]

9 hours ago, frame-it said:

was just thinking about that the other day when someone mentioned phase detect Af, and i wondered if the existing SL lens motors can handle the sudden speeds or would they go the S lens way with broken gears

The S has always had phase-detect AF, but that isn't the reason why many AF gears failed. It seems to have been caused by an unfortunate choice of materials, which was prone to degradation over time. This issue is now resolved.

SL lenses use a completely different AF setup, it's not a gear and a cog like in S lenses.

 

[frame-it]

25 minutes ago, BernardC said:

 

SL lenses use a completely different AF setup, it's not a gear and a cog like in S lenses.

 

good to know, even though i use only MF lenses, though if they ever release a 180 f2 or f2.8 SL prime lens ill prolly get it.

[LocalHero1953]

11 hours ago, JohnathanLovm said:

I’m secretly hoping Leica surprises us with leaf-shutter lenses for SL. 

I seriously hope not (written by someone with 6 current SL lenses)

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[beewee]

6 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I seriously hope not (written by someone with 6 current SL lenses)

If you’re worried your lenses will drop in value, that shouldn’t be a concern. Leica will probably charge a 1-2k premium on a potential leaf shutter enable variant if they ever do.