jaapv Posted January 31, 2023 Share #1 Posted January 31, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) Often yellow-orange-red filters are advised for bright conditions ("to dramatize the clouds in the blue sky". I found that they are quite useful in dull weather too. On these test shots you can see that the tonal range is much better captured using an Orange filter ( flat files ) making for a better basis for postprocessing. Orange filter first, no filter second I did not do any processing except adjust the brightness to be approximately equal for mid-gray - yes, the exposure meter reacts differently. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 7 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/364455-colour-filters-in-grey-weather/?do=findComment&comment=4665975'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 31, 2023 Posted January 31, 2023 Hi jaapv, Take a look here Colour filters in grey weather. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
alksv Posted January 31, 2023 Share #2 Posted January 31, 2023 Thank you for the comparison! As someone who lives in dull weather 98% of the time, I agree. It definitely helps with separation in post. My habit lately is orange for overcast and grey, red for clear, quite often Pro-Mist for electric. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimar Posted January 31, 2023 Share #3 Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) I leave my yellow on as the default. Dark red for bright blue people less images and ideally orange for blue skies that I suspect will involve people. I don’t love what the red does to peoples skin tones. Especially the bright red, dark red is somewhat better. Since purchasing the dark red I don’t really use my bright red at all but it may come in handy. Edited January 31, 2023 by Nimar Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sometimesmaybe Posted January 31, 2023 Share #4 Posted January 31, 2023 i keep a set of colour filters permanently glued to my lenses (from yellow green, to deep yellow to orange). TBH im not sure they makes that much difference to skin tone and blemishes, but what i really like about them is that they cut 1 to 2 stops of light. comes in really handy when shooting fast lenses in bright conditions Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 31, 2023 Author Share #5 Posted January 31, 2023 A red filter will accentuate blemishes ideal for that craggy male portrait, a green filter will even remove freckles to use for a porcelain skin type of shot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kl@usW. Posted January 31, 2023 Share #6 Posted January 31, 2023 vor 4 Minuten schrieb jaapv: A red filter will accentuate blemishes ideal for that craggy male portrait, a green filter will even remove freckles to use for a porcelain skin type of shot. Sorry Jaap, isn´t it the other way round ? Take the portrait of your wife with that green filter, and you´ll sleep on the sofa for the next few days.... 😇 1 1 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirubadanieru Posted January 31, 2023 Share #7 Posted January 31, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thank you for sharing! I looked at the pictures above but the difference is so minimal that I wonder if it’s worth it (not criticizing just thinking out loud as I’ve been wondering if I should get a color to use with M10M or not). If the orange filter difference is this minimal then I’m guessing that a yellow filter will have little to no effect. I shoot with the elmar and I think the only color filters available in 19mm are the yellow and red (don’t want to use e36 cap-on filters). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 1, 2023 Author Share #8 Posted February 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Kl@usW. said: Sorry Jaap, isn´t it the other way round ? Take the portrait of your wife with that green filter, and you´ll sleep on the sofa for the next few days.... 😇 Quite possible , in fact you are right . Fortunately our couch is very comfortable 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 1, 2023 Author Share #9 Posted February 1, 2023 1 hour ago, shirubadanieru said: Thank you for sharing! I looked at the pictures above but the difference is so minimal that I wonder if it’s worth it (not criticizing just thinking out loud as I’ve been wondering if I should get a color to use with M10M or not). If the orange filter difference is this minimal then I’m guessing that a yellow filter will have little to no effect. I shoot with the elmar and I think the only color filters available in 19mm are the yellow and red (don’t want to use e36 cap-on filters). I should do a sunny comparison too. If the sun ever comes out. The difference is considerably more pronounced. But I disagree that the difference is minimal here. For postprocessing the improved tonal range is substantial. I would not shoot a Monochrom without the use of filters. Having said that, I get the impression that the effect of filters is less than it is on films in general. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirubadanieru Posted February 1, 2023 Share #10 Posted February 1, 2023 34 minutes ago, jaapv said: I should do a sunny comparison too. If the sun ever comes out. The difference is considerably more pronounced. But I disagree that the difference is minimal here. For postprocessing the improved tonal range is substantial. I would not shoot a Monochrom without the use of filters. Having said that, I get the impression that the effect of filters is less than it is on films in general. Yeah I also feel that the effect is less than on film, that's why I was wondering if trying to find an original yellow e19 filter for my Elmars was even worth it ahah Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted February 2, 2023 Share #11 Posted February 2, 2023 (edited) I did spectral testing on my M10-M almost immediately after buying it so that I could see what the native "no filter" spectral response was compared to a medium green and medium orange filter. I used an Xrite Color Checker to see the differences: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And "just in case" you don't have the Color Checker's color array memorized, here's quick snap of the Color Checker with my CL ... The differences are in some cases pretty subtle, but there. The result of this spectral response test is that I most often fit whatever lens I'm using with the green filter to expand grey tones gently across the board. The orange filter, in daylight, produces a higher contrast effect ... useful in some circumstances ... but with generally warmer indoor lighting it has less of an effect. I haven't done so much real world comparison shooting between the green and orange filters in cloudy/rainy circumstances. I can imagine that the orange filter will do more to raise contrast in that kind of lighting environment, generally a good thing. G Edited February 2, 2023 by ramarren 6 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And "just in case" you don't have the Color Checker's color array memorized, here's quick snap of the Color Checker with my CL ... The differences are in some cases pretty subtle, but there. The result of this spectral response test is that I most often fit whatever lens I'm using with the green filter to expand grey tones gently across the board. The orange filter, in daylight, produces a higher contrast effect ... useful in some circumstances ... but with generally warmer indoor lighting it has less of an effect. I haven't done so much real world comparison shooting between the green and orange filters in cloudy/rainy circumstances. I can imagine that the orange filter will do more to raise contrast in that kind of lighting environment, generally a good thing. G ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/364455-colour-filters-in-grey-weather/?do=findComment&comment=4668372'>More sharing options...
pippy Posted February 2, 2023 Share #12 Posted February 2, 2023 (edited) 15 hours ago, ramarren said: ...And "just in case" you don't have the Color Checker's color array memorized, here's quick snap of the Color Checker with my CL ... ... Knowing what that level of white-balance accuracy involves in 'Real World' shooting I have to say I'm very impressed! Did you dial-in figures manually prior to shooting; after using 'White-Balance' selection for neutral in post-prod; "Other"? I use exactly the same Colour-Checker all the time day-in-day-out for my pro work and often know that I will have to fine-tune colour-balance even f I swap between different lenses let alone various lighting changes. Fortunately my software allows for me to do this in very small incremental stages but for general 'Out Snapping' stuff it's NEVER going to be an option for me! Philip. Edited February 2, 2023 by pippy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted February 3, 2023 Share #13 Posted February 3, 2023 3 hours ago, pippy said: Knowing what that level of white-balance accuracy involves in 'Real World' shooting I have to say I'm very impressed! Did you dial-in figures manually prior to shooting; after using 'White-Balance' selection for neutral in post-prod; "Other"? I use exactly the same Colour-Checker all the time day-in-day-out for my pro work and often know that I will have to fine-tune colour-balance even f I swap between different lenses let alone various lighting changes. Fortunately my software allows for me to do this in very small incremental stages but for general 'Out Snapping' stuff it's NEVER going to be an option for me! I wish I could claim some unusual mastery but honestly I just had the Color Checker out for another project, opened my patio door and screen to allow diffuse sunlight in (without the greenish cast from the argon-filled double-glazing), and made a snap with the CL for that one. AWB, aperture priority AE... I moved the file to LR Classic, cropped and squared it up a little to be just the Checker, and output it at the defaults. No other processing or setup. The CL is darn good... The M10-M test shots I made more of an effort to line up the camera and crop accurately in-camera, metered with an incident light meter, and fine-tuned the LR exposure setting by sampling the brightest and darkest patches in the grayscale bar to get them as close as possible in all three photos. I didn't change any of the other controls, just exposure to get the white and black points into sync. G 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted February 3, 2023 Share #14 Posted February 3, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, ramarren said: I wish I could claim some unusual mastery but honestly I just had the Color Checker out for another project, opened my patio door and screen to allow diffuse sunlight in (without the greenish cast from the argon-filled double-glazing), and made a snap with the CL for that one. AWB, aperture priority AE......The CL is darn good..... It's certainly impressive! In the studio I have a dozen or so softboxes going from small up to extra-large and each grouping has a different notion of what is 'White'. Using the three mediums, for example, will be an easy dial-in in terms of degrees Kelvin but if I introduce a fourth box of a different size there will be cross-curve issues which can't be resolved completely. Also I've discovered that if I swap-out, say, my 85mm prime for the 50mm I will need to add 3 clicks of Green in a dialogue box as the latter has slightly greater Magenta transmission. Never having the need to do any 'daylight' shooting for work I have not tried the same test myself. As things stand for Personal Snapping I use an M-D Typ-262 and a M Monochrome so in both cases have no choice in what either body chooses to do with Colour Balance... Which brings me back On-Topic... Like many of the earlier members' comments I use either a Yellow or Orange by default on the Monochrom* as they do make a difference even in dull weather so long as there is some degree of tonality in the sky for them to adjust. I haven't carried out a back-to-back with the same filters being used on both Digi- and Film bodies. I'm sure it would be interesting to compare the results! Philip. * If going out specifically for a "B'n'W Shooting Day" these same filters will also be used with the M-D. Edited February 3, 2023 by pippy 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted February 3, 2023 Share #15 Posted February 3, 2023 Any time there are multiple artificial light sources and color capture, getting the white points to align properly is a pain. I feel for you. I remember having to do that back when Film was ALL There Was, Transparencies Ruled, and it was truly a PITA. When doing the comparisons with the M10-M, I was looking to see how similar the spectral response was to my semi-pathological B&W rendering starting points (presets in LR Classic). To my delight, I found the green and orange filters hit my marks for daylight pretty closely, at the two poles of the scene spectrum that matter to me. I've done similar tests with B&W films and different developers over the years but not compared them closely against the M10-M as yet. Yet more testing and calibration ahead, I guess! But that's more for entertainment purposes than shooting purposes as I already know what my standard films and processing produce pretty well, and just do that when I want to do it. Hmm. Two rolls of Ferrania P30 on the desk waiting to be processed. Hmmm. G 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted February 4, 2023 Share #16 Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) Thank you for the additional info. G; very interesting observations as far as the possible spectral sensitivity of Monochrom sensors is concerned. Using Colour Filters with monochrome film has been second nature to me for 45+ years but I've not yet done back-to-back comparisons using the various Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue (etc) E39 filters on the same subject-matter with the Monochrom. I know what I think the results would be - judging on past experience and so on - but I don't know for sure so perhaps that is a project for some 'Quiet Day in the Future'? As far as using E6 goes back in my earliest days as a Pro I remember shooting 10" x 8" Ektachrome 64 and each individual box of film came with its own (batch) Colour-Correction Filter Advisory Note included inside the box of film. How Times Change! Philip. Edited February 4, 2023 by pippy 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Warwick Posted February 12, 2023 Share #17 Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) On 1/31/2023 at 1:54 PM, jaapv said: Often yellow-orange-red filters are advised for bright conditions ("to dramatize the clouds in the blue sky". I found that they are quite useful in dull weather too. On these test shots you can see that the tonal range is much better captured using an Orange filter ( flat files ) making for a better basis for postprocessing. Orange filter first, no filter second I did not do any processing except adjust the brightness to be approximately equal for mid-gray - yes, the exposure meter reacts differently. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Very interesting, many thanks. I can see the orange filter catalysed some differences, but I’m struggling to decipher exactly what and why. Is the orange filter simply responding to a select few colours in your scenes, or is it having a more holistic effect on tonality and contrast? Edited February 12, 2023 by Jon Warwick Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimar Posted February 12, 2023 Share #18 Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) Changes luminosity based on colour and as a result increases perceived contrast. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited February 12, 2023 by Nimar 1 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/364455-colour-filters-in-grey-weather/?do=findComment&comment=4683861'>More sharing options...
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