L1 as a backup to the D3?

[jgriffter]

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I have the D3 and love it. With the stock lens, a zuiko 50mm 2.0 and the 50-200mm, I am getting great results. I bought an E510 and have not been able to get the results I like compared to the D3 - mostly with regards to dynamic range and blown highlights. The E 510 just doesnt seem to have the same glow to the pictures as the D3. Watching the price fall on the L1 has gotten me thinking I might want to pick one up as a backup. Should I wait for the next Leica model or anything else that might be coming out or go with an L1? I have really taken to the D3. I assume the L1 will provide similar results. The L1 is going for $1000 now from some reputable sellers.

 

Thoughts?

[dugby]

Hello John. Soon after the D3 was announced. On this fora was the initial "banter" that the

D3 and L1 had different FW that caused the image outputs to be different. The claim was for both jpeg and RAW. Some Leica dealers even made claims along those lines.

 

There was an initial attempt to show these differences by some users who had access to both D3 and L1 for side-by-side shooting. But that seems to have lost momentum after the first few images showed inconsistent differences between the generated images.

 

This was actually a similar to the claims of the D2 and LC1 back in 2004/2005.

 

I currently have both a D2 and L1, and I have found I can take consecutive photos with my L1 of the same scene, with a ever so slight movement in my tripod and the two consecutive photos look like they came from different cameras, as I get a slight light change with movement and this affects the captured imaged significantly.

 

So I suggest that the RAW images from both the D3 and L1 will be as identical as they can be despite the inconsistencies of my above example.

 

For now I use my D2 as a backup to my L1, but give the pace of change in the CCD arena, I would have thought an alternative strategy for you (if you can get by on one body for now) it to wait for an L2 and on it's acquistion, it becomes your primary camera and the D3 becomes your backup ? Obviously this is a more expensive and waiting on 'futures' strategy.....particularly as no L2 has been announced, and the images from the L10 seems to be a unknown factor for now.

 

However the L1 acquisition is a 'lower cost' and known quantity, and very workable.......

[goodbokeh]

If you can find an L1 kit for $1000 from a reputable dealer, I would advise you buy it. I have noticed that the price for the L1 has been trending upwards since August and most places are at $1200 to $1300. The other option to consider is the new Olympus E3 due out late next month at $1700 for the body. The E3 is said to have wider dynamic range than the E510.

[srf4real]

An L1 for $1000 is the deal you won't want to miss... that would make the body practically free as the lens is still going for $920 and worth every penny of it. I only have experience with the L1, but can tell you I have no complaints with image quality and get excellent dynamic range from its sensor.

[jdlaing]

I have both the D-3 and the L-1.

 

The L-1 makes an excellent 2nd body and lens that would be a close replacement or "backup" for the Digilux.

 

In testing both of these cameras I did notice that if I took RAW files from each camera and processed them thru a 3rd party converter, in my case Adobe, that the dynamic range as well as the color representation and shadow detail was enough different that it was easily seen at first look.

 

I can force the Leica to be very close to the Panasonic in a photograph but I cannot do it in reverse no matter how hard I try. If I set the camera or try to post process the L-1 photo to look the same as the D-3 it mucks it up as it gets closer to the "Leica Look". Go figure. I can get a photo from the Panasonic to come pretty close but not right on whether I use RAW or JPEG.

 

The levers and control wheel are different enough that it is noticeable when you first pick up one or the other. Also, the Panasonic, has an annoying little light that stays on while the camera is powered up.

 

At $999.00 or less the L-1 is a dandy deal and well worth getting as a second body for more than "back up body" reasons too. If you were shooting a larger quantity of pictures and trying to get different looks the tow bodies could be set different and save changing all the settings back and forth on one another.

 

I am very pleased with both brands but the Leica wins out in image quality (or look) and fit and finish of the controls and the warranty can't be beat.

 

Get a L-1 as a second body and lens and you won't be sorry.

[jgriffter]

Thanks to everyone for the thoughtful responses. They were very helpful. I decided to get the L1 as a backup, figuring that the Leica lens will always be worth a bit on its own. Now I hope that the L1 will give me similar results to the D3 with a little work. The L1 appears to be a great camera as well with a few differences.

 

The camera kit is available from the world's largest retailer right now for $998 US on clearance. Of all the places to find it! Interestingly, it does not pop up on any of the price scanning internet searches but it is there if you go directly to the site. You do have to pay tax but shipping is pretty much free. I received the L1 today so I am anxious to try it out!

 

Thank you again for the insights.

[William Noel]

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I have the D3 and love it. With the stock lens, a zuiko 50mm 2.0 and the 50-200mm, I am getting great results. I bought an E510 and have not been able to get the results I like compared to the D3 - mostly with regards to dynamic range and blown highlights. The E 510 just doesnt seem to have the same glow to the pictures as the D3. Watching the price fall on the L1 has gotten me thinking I might want to pick one up as a backup. Should I wait for the next Leica model or anything else that might be coming out or go with an L1? I have really taken to the D3. I assume the L1 will provide similar results. The L1 is going for $1000 now from some reputable sellers.

 

Thoughts?

 

Hi John,

I've been using my d3 with the kit lens only and wondering what tele lens to add.

I see you have an oly 50-200mm.

If its not a bother to you, may I know how do you find it? should I consider another one?

Thanks in advance.

 

BTW, I'm glad to hear someone who is very please with the d3 which is so rare to find

I thought I'm the only one. and can't resist thinking "am I that different?"

 

Happy shooting with your L1, I may follow your path...

[jdlaing]

Hi John,

I've been using my d3 with the kit lens only and wondering what tele lens to add.

I see you have an oly 50-200mm.

If its not a bother to you, may I know how do you find it? should I consider another one?

Thanks in advance.

 

BTW, I'm glad to hear someone who is very please with the d3 which is so rare to find

I thought I'm the only one. and can't resist thinking "am I that different?"

 

Happy shooting with your L1, I may follow your path...

 

I use the 18-180 and 50-200 as well and find them both very nice. The 50-200 has the speed advantage. They do not, however, have IS and I will get the 14-150 when available just for that reason.

[William Noel]

I use the 18-180 and 50-200 as well and find them both very nice. The 50-200 has the speed advantage. They do not, however, have IS and I will get the 14-150 when available just for that reason.

 

Hi James,

How do you find the bokeh of 50-200?

I'm asking this since I love taking portraits and I find it hard to isolate my subject with the 14-50 lens even at full aperture setting.

[goodbokeh]

Hi John

 

Would you give us your assessment on the D3 vs L1 fit and finish as well as early thoughts on how the firmware differences make the photos look? BTW, if you want a longer warranty on the L1 go to the Club Panasonic web site, register and then you can purchase either a 2 or 3 year extended warranty.

 

https://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vClubHomePage?storeId=15001

[jdlaing]

Hi James,

How do you find the bokeh of 50-200?

I'm asking this since I love taking portraits and I find it hard to isolate my subject with the 14-50 lens even at full aperture setting.

 

That I do not know and will have to check for myself.

I bought a 30mm 1.4 for just that reason and hadn't tried to get narrow DOF with the 50-200.

[jgriffter]

Hi John,

I've been using my d3 with the kit lens only and wondering what tele lens to add.

I see you have an oly 50-200mm.

If its not a bother to you, may I know how do you find it? should I consider another one?

Thanks in advance.

 

BTW, I'm glad to hear someone who is very please with the d3 which is so rare to find

I thought I'm the only one. and can't resist thinking "am I that different?"

 

Happy shooting with your L1, I may follow your path...

 

Hi William

 

The 50-200mm 2.8-3.5 is a very nice piece of glass. After experimenting with my Leica 75-200 4.5 (manual focus minolta R lens) I decided to get an autofocus zoom. The lens is a bit bulky yet not too heavy (around 2 lbs). It is very sharp lens with very good color saturation and detail. It is one of those lenses where after the first batch of test photos I knew I would like it - a nice wow factor. I have the Oly 40-150 (older version) and it is markedly better. Depth of field is good too. I dont have a lot to compare it with (other Leica zooms of higher quality than my 75-200mm) but overall I am very satisfied. I will definitely keep it. It is pricey but also one of Olympus' higher grade (middle grade) lenses and I think it was in the same price range of oher quality zooms buy other makers.

[jgriffter]

Hi John

 

Would you give us your assessment on the D3 vs L1 fit and finish as well as early thoughts on how the firmware differences make the photos look? BTW, if you want a longer warranty on the L1 go to the Club Panasonic web site, register and then you can purchase either a 2 or 3 year extended warranty.

 

https://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vClubHomePage?storeId=15001

 

Goodbokeh

 

A little early on the picture quality impact due to firmware. I did immediately upgrade the L1 to V2.0 firmware. I usually shoot JPEGs just for speed. Pictures out of the camera definitely have the same look as those from the D3. Three dimensionality, great dynamic range. L1 appears to be a bit more color saturated. interestingly after I upgraded the firmware, the menus are the same - at least as far as I can tell except for the shutdown c=screen - Lumix vs Leica. Immediately I see the D3 picture "look" that I was seeking but couldn't get from the E510 (a good camera and I own one - I am not knocking it, just not that image signature i was looking for).

 

With regards to build quality and fit and finish, very, very similar. The L1 might have a bit lighter guage dials and buttons but it is hard to tell. The L1 has the same high quality feel of the D3, at least to me. Other than the badgings and the markings, the more I look at the cameras together, the more I think they are the same.

[William Noel]

Hi William

 

The 50-200mm 2.8-3.5 is a very nice piece of glass. After experimenting with my Leica 75-200 4.5 (manual focus minolta R lens) I decided to get an autofocus zoom. The lens is a bit bulky yet not too heavy (around 2 lbs). It is very sharp lens with very good color saturation and detail. It is one of those lenses where after the first batch of test photos I knew I would like it - a nice wow factor. I have the Oly 40-150 (older version) and it is markedly better. Depth of field is good too. I dont have a lot to compare it with (other Leica zooms of higher quality than my 75-200mm) but overall I am very satisfied. I will definitely keep it. It is pricey but also one of Olympus' higher grade (middle grade) lenses and I think it was in the same price range of oher quality zooms buy other makers.

 

Thanks a lot John for the reply.

In case you have a portrait photo using the long end portion of the lens with the widest aperture setting, I would really appreciate to see it. But don't bother anyway if you don't have.

BTW, I may have that "D3 look" experience too you're talking about

[goodbokeh]

Goodbokeh

 

A little early on the picture quality impact due to firmware. I did immediately upgrade the L1 to V2.0 firmware. I usually shoot JPEGs just for speed. Pictures out of the camera definitely have the same look as those from the D3. Three dimensionality, great dynamic range. L1 appears to be a bit more color saturated. interestingly after I upgraded the firmware, the menus are the same - at least as far as I can tell except for the shutdown c=screen - Lumix vs Leica. Immediately I see the D3 picture "look" that I was seeking but couldn't get from the E510 (a good camera and I own one - I am not knocking it, just not that image signature i was looking for).

 

With regards to build quality and fit and finish, very, very similar. The L1 might have a bit lighter guage dials and buttons but it is hard to tell. The L1 has the same high quality feel of the D3, at least to me. Other than the badgings and the markings, the more I look at the cameras together, the more I think they are the same.

 

Well John, I just followed your lead and purchased (as backup to my D3) a $998 L1 kit at the "W" internet site. I am somewhat conflicted on whether to keep or sell the second 14-50mm zoom. What do you plan to do?

[jgriffter]

Goodbokeh

 

Good luck with your new purchase! I am very happy with mine - great camera.

 

With regard to the lens, I think i will keep it. I really like the lens and I think it is a strong "everyday use" lens. I probably will use one for harsher environment shoots (rain, high Houston humidity, etc). With the price of the L1 kit, I feel better knowing I have "doubled up" on the lens. Over time, I might reconsider if a juicy new Leica lens is offered.

 

I am still adjusting to the differences in image quality to the D3. Appears that saturation needs to be turned down and sharpness up to get closer to the D3 "look". THere are some threads on this site that talk about it, but I have not seen anything conclusive as to the best general settings.

 

Good luck and make sure to post how you like the L1 compared to the D3 as you work with it a bit.

[Third Eye]

I have both the D-3 and the L-1.

 

The L-1 makes an excellent 2nd body and lens that would be a close replacement or "backup" for the Digilux.

 

In testing both of these cameras I did notice that if I took RAW files from each camera and processed them thru a 3rd party converter, in my case Adobe, that the dynamic range as well as the color representation and shadow detail was enough different that it was easily seen at first look.

 

I can force the Leica to be very close to the Panasonic in a photograph but I cannot do it in reverse no matter how hard I try. If I set the camera or try to post process the L-1 photo to look the same as the D-3 it mucks it up as it gets closer to the "Leica Look". Go figure. I can get a photo from the Panasonic to come pretty close but not right on whether I use RAW or JPEG.

 

The levers and control wheel are different enough that it is noticeable when you first pick up one or the other. Also, the Panasonic, has an annoying little light that stays on while the camera is powered up.

 

At $999.00 or less the L-1 is a dandy deal and well worth getting as a second body for more than "back up body" reasons too. If you were shooting a larger quantity of pictures and trying to get different looks the tow bodies could be set different and save changing all the settings back and forth on one another.

 

I am very pleased with both brands but the Leica wins out in image quality (or look) and fit and finish of the controls and the warranty can't be beat.

 

Get a L-1 as a second body and lens and you won't be sorry.

 

Please describe what settings (contrast, saturation, NR, sharpness, EV compensation, etc.) on the L1 (firmware v.2) come closest to mimicking the D3 before the images get "mucked up?" I don't have a D3 to play with & have wondered about the output differences. If you use Photoshop C3 and/or Noise Ninja, I would appreciate knowing what settings you have found most effective for both JPG & RAW post processing. If you have never been able to come close, please describe how you set the D3 to mimic the L1. This should give insight into the 2 engines. Thanks.