28mm Summicron-SL vs Leica Q2

[Sohail]

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I don't hear too much about the 28mm Summicron-SL. Any thoughts on how it stacks up against the Leica Q2?

Edited January 25, 2023 by Sohail

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[robb]

I think you don't hear as much because it's so close in focal length (and optical mt.fs) to the SL 35 apo which is reputed to be their best lens ever... So there are not as many SL 28's out there.  Optically the SL apo primes are tops.  The 28 on my Q-P has a very nice look but can't compete with my 35 apo.

Different tools I think.  No wrong answer.

Robb

[kobra]

To add to what Rob stated... my understanding is that the lens on the Q2 needs software correction for barrel distortion, whereas the SL APO primes are optically much better; in fact the goal seems to make them about as perfect as a lens can be made. 

So, what is it you want to shoot with it? If street, people, etc, then maybe perfect edge sharpness will matter very little. But, if for landscapes or other images where the best edge sharpness is important, I would guess the SL28 will hold an edge. 

All that said, my Q2 is not going anywhere  

What I'm trying to sort out is not IF I'm getting one of the SL primes, but which one. It will definitely not be the 28 though, likely it will be the 75 or 90, to pair with my Q2. 

Brad

[jigesh]

1 hour ago, Sohail said:

I don't hear too much about the 28mm Summicron-SL. Any thoughts on how it stacks up against the Leica Q2?

Not a direct comparison with Q2, but an interesting read if you haven't yet come across: https://www.slack.co.uk/28-summicron-sl.html

[robb]

I think the form factor of the Q2 and upcoming Q3 will be a great add to many people and SL2 users.  I gave my Q-P to my son to use and plan to add the Q2 or Q3 this year.  I think the lens even wide open looks sharp.  The falloff is nice.  I'd use it for people images primarily wide open in informal situations.  I was hoping that with a possible higher resolution sensor for the Q3 matching the M11 specs that Leica would upgrade the 28 lens in the Q but we'll see.  Once you use the apo primes for the SL2, its hard to go back to anything else... lol

Robb

[Virob]

It seems like a lot of SL/SL2 users also have a Q/Q2. For many of us, the Q/Q2 was a gateway to the SL system. While, yes, the 28SL is going to be better than the Q2, it is hard to justify having both. I think Leica  miscalculated when the 28SL was launched after the 35. Could be they thought that because the Q was so popular, there was a high demand for a 28.  I think they would have sold more lenses if they had the introduced the 21 or 24 first.

 

[Stuart Richardson]

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While I am sure that it is still an excellent lens, if you look at the MTF, it does not compare that well with the 35mm APO Summicron SL. While the 35mm is nearly flat across the entire field, achieving over 70% contrast in the extreme corners even wide open, the 28mm has a pretty significant dip in the field that does not improve much on stopping down. The tangential structures at 40 lines pairs per millimeter are below 40% even at 5.6. According to the MTF's at least, the Q2 should have sharper corners than the 28mm Summicron, though the Summicron has much higher contrast through most of the image area. I have not been lucky enough to try the 28mm Summicron, but based on the MTF, I would probably want to try it before I bought it, as it does not seem to be quite as strong a performer as the other APO Summicrons.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Stuart Richardson

[Virob]

Off topic, but comparing the MTF curves of the 28 and 21 SL lenses, the 21 is impressive.

Hopefully someone will compare images from the 21 cropped to 24 with the 24-90 and 16-35 at 24. It might also be a fantastic 24mm lens.😄.

[robb]

I am on the waiting list for the SL 21 apo.  I will not likely add the 28 because of adding the 21 and already having the 35 apo.

But a Q2 or Q3 is in y future for sure.

Dif tools for dif situations.

Robb

[Genoweffa]

2 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

While I am sure that it is still an excellent lens, if you look at the MTF, it does not compare that well with the 35mm APO Summicron SL. While the 35mm is nearly flat across the entire field, achieving over 70% contrast in the extreme corners even wide open, the 28mm has a pretty significant dip in the field that does not improve much on stopping down. The tangential structures at 40 lines pairs per millimeter are below 40% even at 5.6. According to the MTF's at least, the Q2 should have sharper corners than the 28mm Summicron, though the Summicron has much higher contrast through most of the image area. I have not been lucky enough to try the 28mm Summicron, but based on the MTF, I would probably want to try it before I bought it, as it does not seem to be quite as strong a performer as the other APO Summicrons.

Could you please ad those MTF graphs to your comment.

[robb]

Here is the mtf comparison between the q2 28 ad the SL 28 apo

Robb

 

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Edited January 26, 2023 by robb

[kobra]

Thanks @robb

Interesting stuff; at f5.6 they get really interesting to compare. In some ways the Q2 may actually show a bit sharper edges, but likely the bokeh may be nicer on the SL28. But, I admit I have only a surface understanding of MTF charts, so I could be misinterpreting. 

What do you (or others) think when you compare?

Brad

[hellobrandonscott]

I literally *just* got the 28SL yesterday. I also have the Q2. So far, hot take, the Q2 is wider (lots of info online about the Q2 being more of a 24). I love the Q2, but the 28SL is way way sharper. I'll have more info to share about it as I start to use it more at weddings this season. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by hellobrandonscott

[John Smith]

12 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

While I am sure that it is still an excellent lens, if you look at the MTF, it does not compare that well with the 35mm APO Summicron SL. While the 35mm is nearly flat across the entire field, achieving over 70% contrast in the extreme corners even wide open, the 28mm has a pretty significant dip in the field that does not improve much on stopping down. The tangential structures at 40 lines pairs per millimeter are below 40% even at 5.6. According to the MTF's at least, the Q2 should have sharper corners than the 28mm Summicron, though the Summicron has much higher contrast through most of the image area. I have not been lucky enough to try the 28mm Summicron, but based on the MTF, I would probably want to try it before I bought it, as it does not seem to be quite as strong a performer as the other APO Summicrons.

I have the 28mm Summicron and it is stellar. I wouldn't be surprised if Leica corrects the tangential structures that dip below 40% by software like Peter Karbe says it does for the 50Lux. I just bought a Q2M and, frankly, I think we're getting to the point of just theoretical differences in Leica's latest offerings. I read somewhere recently that the Q2 is more of a 26mm, not a 24mm. 

[Virob]

2 hours ago, John Smith said:

I have the 28mm Summicron and it is stellar. I wouldn't be surprised if Leica corrects the tangential structures that dip below 40% by software like Peter Karbe says it does for the 50Lux. I just bought a Q2M and, frankly, I think we're getting to the point of just theoretical differences in Leica's latest offerings. I read somewhere recently that the Q2 is more of a 26mm, not a 24mm. 

I have read somewhere as well that software is being used with the 28SL for correction. Everyone does these days. With the Q2, I find the angle of view depends on which raw developer you use. Apple photos and RawPower, use the built in profile and the angle of view is not as wide as the profile used by Affinity Photo or Luminar. The uncorrected angle is probably 24-25, but unusable without correction.

[Sohail]

I'd love to see some real world photo comparisons.

 

[John Smith]

28 minutes ago, Sohail said:

I'd love to see some real world photo comparisons.

 

I have a Q2M, so my lenses would be apples and oranges. One particular difference between the Q2 and the 28SL is that the SL is an APO lens. That makes for a noticeable difference between my 75Noct and 75SL.

[panoreserve]

I used all 5 Apo Summicron lenses; I currently use and own the focal lengths 28, 50 and 90 mm. All I can say is that they are all pretty awesome and I can't see any performance differences between them. Due to the crop reserves of the SL2, I was able to limit myself to just 2 lenses during my stay in Israel (28 & 90): The 28 not only proved to be an ideal wide-angle all-round lens, but it also sometimes acted as a replacement for the Apo-35 (left at home). By the way: the SL-Apo 28 is so far the only one of the SL Apo-Summicron lenses that has been corrected on the software side. In Lightroom under "Lens Corrections" only in the case of the 28 is the comment "Built-in lens profile applied". This is not the case with the 35, 50, 75 and 90 mm.

Edited January 26, 2023 by panoreserve

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[hansvons]

On 1/26/2023 at 1:50 AM, Stuart Richardson said:

According to the MTF's at least, the Q2 should have sharper corners than the 28mm Summicron, though the Summicron has much higher contrast through most of the image area.

Yes. But the Q2's stark digital barrel correction to compensate for the not-so-brilliant spherical distortions will certainly influence the corner sharpness. But how much that is, especially when stopped down at infinity when photographing landscapes where corner sharpness counts most, I don't know.

[Stuart Richardson]

1 hour ago, hansvons said:

Yes. But the Q2's stark digital barrel correction to compensate for the not-so-brilliant spherical distortions will certainly influence the corner sharpness. But how much that is, especially when stopped down at infinity when photographing landscapes where corner sharpness counts most, I don't know.

Yes, I am not sure how it performs without the lens distortion correction, as I use lightroom and it is automatically applied. I will say, however, that at 5.6 the edge sharpness is pretty good, but not perfect, but there also seems to be field curvature that means areas a bit closer to the camera are sharper than the edges at infinity (assuming you focused at infinity). The photos are good enough for the vast majority of uses, but if your end goal is very large prints, then you would find a better result with, for example, the 35mm APO summicron. I cannot comment on the 28mm summicron because I don't have it, but looking at the MTF, the dip in tangential structures gives me a bit of pause. If that can be corrected by software, however, then that is great. I also believe everyone who says that it is excellent, both because of their words, but also because the MTF otherwise is extremely good. It is also a bit hard to find a wide angle photograph where the edge to edge resolution is really visible in all cases. Even in a landscape, the corners are typically either at a different distance to the center (ie the ground closer to the camera), or they are just the sky. It is not often that you photograph something completely flat and equidistant to the camera with a very wide lens like the Q, unless you are shooting out of an airplane.