LocalHero1953 Posted December 31, 2022 Share #1 Posted December 31, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have some prospective commissioned work coming up for which my normal amateur approach of treating a Q2 or older Sigma fp as backup bodies may not be enough. A used Panasonic or Sigma fp-L could be the low cost answer. The work would be indoors in artificial light. Can anyone advise how the low light performance and colours of the Panasonic S5, S1 or S1R or Sigma fp-L match up to the SL2-S? And how do Panasonic colours in general match up to Leica colours? I have the Sigma fp, and I am happy with its colours, but it won't be a good solution in low light. (I know there is a new Panasonic S5 on the way in a few days, and a SL3 may not be long delayed, but I don't need the latest and best, just 'good enough', low cost and equivalent IQ to the SL2-S) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 31, 2022 Posted December 31, 2022 Hi LocalHero1953, Take a look here Back-up for SL2-S: Panasonic S5 or Sigma fp-L ?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
hofo100 Posted December 31, 2022 Share #2 Posted December 31, 2022 I can only talk about S5 and how it relates to SL2 - got the S5 as a lightweight alternative in the L-mount arena, esp to take with me when I am going hiking. For me, the S5 is more the used-to camera form factor, and therefore I did not consider the fp-L. Regarding colors the differences between Panasonic and Leica are not as big as with other brands. I have created over time my personal input presets in LR for SL, Q and S5 which are the basis for any further post processing and with those applied the differences between SL and S5 are (at least to my eye) not material - and vanish further if you then apply similar approaches in the further post-processing. Being mostly outdoor/landscape shooter I do not care too much about low ISO... I found this one below on my hard disk which is shot at ISO 3200 with the S5. Although not indoor, the (very low) noise level on the dark water surface may help you to get an idea (Noise reduction in LR Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! set to "18") Side remark - I have programmed one of the individual user settings on the S5 in a way that it matches with my standard user settings on the SL, so that both cameras behave quite similar, which is helpful when switching. 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! set to "18") Side remark - I have programmed one of the individual user settings on the S5 in a way that it matches with my standard user settings on the SL, so that both cameras behave quite similar, which is helpful when switching. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/358576-back-up-for-sl2-s-panasonic-s5-or-sigma-fp-l/?do=findComment&comment=4622695'>More sharing options...
Olaf_ZG Posted December 31, 2022 Share #3 Posted December 31, 2022 What about a second hand SL? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted December 31, 2022 Author Share #4 Posted December 31, 2022 17 minutes ago, Olaf_ZG said: What about a second hand SL? Thanks for the suggestion, but it's not really up to the SL2-S in low light. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huwm Posted January 1, 2023 Share #5 Posted January 1, 2023 S5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted January 1, 2023 Author Share #6 Posted January 1, 2023 12 minutes ago, huwm said: S5 Can you offer any more info? The S5 is certainly an option. And do you have both S5 and SL2-S - or Sigma fp-L? How does the S5 low light performance and colours match up to the SL2-S? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 1, 2023 Share #7 Posted January 1, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) The colours of the S5 are not all that easy to match with Leica colours (I compare to an SL 601) Even after shooting an Xrite Colorchecker Passport with both cameras and profiling, they do not quite match and need additional postprocessing. The noise performance is comparable to the SL 601. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 1, 2023 Share #8 Posted January 1, 2023 But I am a colour nerd - it might be close enough for others. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted January 1, 2023 Author Share #9 Posted January 1, 2023 I am fussy about skin tones especially, and in low light no camera has leeway. The SL2-S is the best that I have had in this regard, and reports from those with experience of other bodies seems to confirm that. I am prepared to go to ISO 25,000. This is the SL2-S at ISO 16000. Not perfect - I could have removed more of the magenta, from stage lighting, in the first - but good enough in the circumstances. How high ISO would you take the S5 to and hope for good skin tones? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 4 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/358576-back-up-for-sl2-s-panasonic-s5-or-sigma-fp-l/?do=findComment&comment=4624064'>More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted January 1, 2023 Author Share #10 Posted January 1, 2023 And this one, posted recently, and which I am happy with, was at ISO 8000. Noise reduction in Topaz, but that doesn't improve colour. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/358576-back-up-for-sl2-s-panasonic-s5-or-sigma-fp-l/?do=findComment&comment=4624076'>More sharing options...
huwm Posted January 1, 2023 Share #11 Posted January 1, 2023 I use the S5 as a back up for SL2 rather than SL2 S and rarely go beyond 3200 iso with either so I'm not much help 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansvons Posted January 6, 2023 Share #12 Posted January 6, 2023 On 12/31/2022 at 2:29 PM, LocalHero1953 said: I have some prospective commissioned work coming up for which my normal amateur approach of treating a Q2 or older Sigma fp as backup bodies may not be enough. A used Panasonic or Sigma fp-L could be the low cost answer. I have no idea how demanding your clients/you are, but I can say the S5 and the SL2-S have different colour approaches to video. First, the S5 and SL2-S have their distinct colour interpretations/styles. If you want to match them on a log level, that will be particularly challenging as the SL2-S lives in Rec2020 with a mild 10-bit log curve/flat profile, but the S5's V-log has a proprietary log interpretation. Both worlds have to be matched, which works well in ACES and Resolve's colour-managed workflow using as IDTs the respective input transfers, but doing that needs some experience as the gamma of both cameras will be quite different (S5 contrasty/vibrant, SL2-S flat, desaturated), and so is the colour interpretation. The S5 has the same sensor as the SL2-S and shows similar low-light capabilities. But I would never buy a Panasonic camera for video due to their colour science. For reference, please check the Netflix show After Life season 1 (hilarious show!!) because that was shot in V-Log on Panasonic Varicams (back then, in 2018, Arri wasn't a viable way for Netflix shows due to the lack of 4K sensor resolution in the S-35mm format). I have no use for Panasonic colours, skin tones, vibrancy, the white roll-off etc... It looks like video with the shallower DOF of proper cinema photography. --- I'm somewhat in the same situation as you, as I shoot video with my SL2-S and often with a BM Cinema Pocket camera recording raw footage. Matching both requires a common denominator, which is Rec2020. Thus I convert the BM footage to Rec2020 before editing, using ACES and BM's log curve for output. Then, both cameras still don't match colour-wise due to their different colour science but show their full DR and a similar gamma curve. The rest is handiwork, WB etc... So, what to do? I guess the best is to wait for the SL3-S and keep the SL2-S as backup, second unit body. It's going to be a 4.5k investment, but all issues, as mentioned earlier, will be resolved unless they make the two incompatible for some reason (which I don't think). 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted January 6, 2023 Author Share #13 Posted January 6, 2023 (edited) 39 minutes ago, hansvons said: So, what to do? I guess the best is to wait for the SL3-S and keep the SL2-S as backup, second unit body. It's going to be a 4.5k investment, but all issues, as mentioned earlier, will be resolved unless they make the two incompatible for some reason (which I don't think). Thanks for the comments. I am coming to the same conclusion: wait for the SL3-S, trade in my Sigma fp (around £700 at the moment) and keep the SL2-S. Fortunately I am a lot more demanding than my clients, but I have enough trouble matching SL2-S and Sigma fp footage: I shoot the Leica in L-log and the Sigma as CinemaDNG (it doesn't do log). Two Leicas will make that a lot easier. (I shoot stage productions: typically one camera on a tripod at wide angle, fixed focus, the other with a longer lens for close-ups, also on a tripod, but panned with AF or MF). I hope the SL3-S comes a bit earlier in the launch sequence than the SL2-S did. Edited January 6, 2023 by LocalHero1953 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansvons Posted January 6, 2023 Share #14 Posted January 6, 2023 1 minute ago, LocalHero1953 said: Fortunately I am a lot more demanding than my clients, Another similarity. I've retired from TV commercial land and now work in the European conservation sector. Clients are much less demanding in a good way, but I'm still myself. I'm sure the SL3-S will be a brilliant hybrid camera. But that can be said about the SL-S if AF and a flippy screen aren't important to you. Chances are high that they'll match. I am already thinking about how to finance that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted January 7, 2023 Share #15 Posted January 7, 2023 SL2-S and S5 colors can easily be processed to match in post for stills provided one shoots RAW. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Richardson Posted January 7, 2023 Share #16 Posted January 7, 2023 I photograph primarily landscapes and infrastructure, but I found that I really liked the Panasonic camera natural profile. I have not done much log shooting, however. Regarding ISO performance, I have used up to ISO 50,000 for night videos used in art pieces, and have been reasonably happy with it. Mostly just using noise reduction in Resolve. Overall, however, if matching is a concern, it is always better to stay in the same brand. In this case, since you are primarily concerned about backup, I would say the new S5II is probably the ticket. If in the worst case scenario your Leica fails, then you still have a good video camera that can be made to work. It may require extra work, but it will still do the job. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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