50mm to Pair with Q2

[M11 for me]

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vor 9 Stunden schrieb DenverSteve:

Professional motorsports, football basketball, family photos............... have all been done with manual-focus equipment for around 100 years

That is fully correct of course. There was nothing else and lots of photographers did very well without AF. I take photigraphs since the late 50ies. Until 2005 I had no AF.

But nowadays you can get AF cameras that in the fraction of a second find the face then jump onto the eye. I think thats where the main competition is between Sony and Canon. More anyway than better sensors. And I think that there are different expections today. The technology drives that.

My personal experience: I would not dare to accept a paid assignement and do it then with my M11: Light is often bad, inside a building, moving people. That is me. I know that there are people with fully different opinion. I feel safe with Canon R5 and I need that.

Leica M11 is my camera that is always with me outside such assignements. And of course I would not like to be without it. An in between camera is my Q2.

[Qwertynm]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb DenverSteve:

Howver, and unfortunately, it's just the modern generation(s) who believe that the M, or manual-focus in general, isn't suitable for..... X? Professional motorsports, football basketball, family photos............... have all been done with manual-focus equipment for around 100 years.

Who said that or do you just like to make stuff up? Why do you feel the need to bring that up? In fact many young people are shooting film again and are focusing manually. There are applications for that, sure. If you want to shoot running toddlers with your manual camera, fine. Just don’t belittle others who choose not to. I‘d take a SoNiCanon anyday over a manual camera for shooting my kid. Your first point about using the M lenses on a CL are a valid point. Altough as I said, I‘d prefer a modern AF camera from those 3 big brands because apparently the focus of Pana/Leica are still a bit behind. 

[Simone_DF]

With a Sony you can even autofocus M lenses with the Techart adapter. It works reasonably well, with limitations 

[DenverSteve]

4 hours ago, Qwertynm said:

Who said that or do you just like to make stuff up? Why do you feel the need to bring that up? In fact many young people are shooting film again and are focusing manually. There are applications for that, sure. If you want to shoot running toddlers with your manual camera, fine. Just don’t belittle others who choose not to. I‘d take a SoNiCanon anyday over a manual camera for shooting my kid. Your first point about using the M lenses on a CL are a valid point. Altough as I said, I‘d prefer a modern AF camera from those 3 big brands because apparently the focus of Pana/Leica are still a bit behind. 

Let's see, the OP asked, on an open forum, for suggestions about a camera. He/she asked about a CL, A7c... I told him both would work, and the CL a perfectly good, modern system would work and keep the OP in the Leica system.  I then reminded him/her/all that as in the past, shooting children is very easy - even with manual focus............ I didn't quote, or mis-quote you in any way, even though you started rambling about your calendars, kids, aunts, family.... for no reason (certainly not part of answering anything that the OP had asked.  So, unless I rattle your cage, how about you answer the OP and stop stalking others who are doing exactly that.  

[DenverSteve]

On 12/23/2022 at 2:25 PM, lifeandmylens said:

Thank you. I’ll look into the D-Lux. I’ve had the rx100 years ago and it was a little too small. I’m looking for an interchangeable lens body. 

Actually yes, the D-Lux 7 is a very-capable camera producing excellent photos and no need for additional glass or accessories. It's also small enough to put/keep with you all the time. 

[Qwertynm]

@DenverSteve Printing pictures and making cheesy gifts for your inlaws is tangentially relevant to shooting moving kids. Because that’s what parents do and grandparents can expect to receive as christmas presents. I was referring to the quality of a camera vs a phone on a tiny print. That’s just me telling OP about my immeadiate experience. Maybe read before you write and judge again if this was off topic (OP wants to shoot young kids, remember).

As far as I’m concerned OP didn’t ask about manual focusing cameras. And certainly no one needs that elitist „advice“ that a 100 years ago it was such and such and people did this and that. Stay on topic as you did in the first paragraph. That second one was unnecessary rambling (as you accuse me to do). 
 

 

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by Qwertynm

[DenverSteve]

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34 minutes ago, Qwertynm said:

@DenverSteve Printing pictures and making cheesy gifts for your inlaws is tangentially relevant to shooting moving kids. Because that’s what parents do and grandparents can expect to receive as christmas presents. I was referring to the quality of a camera vs a phone on a tiny print. That’s just me telling OP about my immeadiate experience. Maybe read before you write and judge again if this was off topic (OP wants to shoot young kids, remember).

As far as I’m concerned OP didn’t ask about manual focusing cameras. And certainly no one needs that elitist „advice“ that a 100 years ago it was such and such and people did this and that. Stay on topic as you did in the first paragraph. That second one was unnecessary rambling (as you accuse me to do). 
 

 

 

You've obviously taken responsibility for this thread so, just move along. No one really cares what you are concerned with. No one quoted you.  Move along. 

[viramati]

I often carry my Q2 along with my Sony A1 and Sony/Zeiss FE55 f1.8 and it makes for a great general compact set up. Of course the Sony A1 is expensive so you could easily use the Sony A7iv for a cheaper but excellent set up. The focussing tracking and face/eye detection of the latest Sony cameras make Leica's seem simply Neolithic in this regard

Edited December 27, 2022 by viramati

[jaapv]

Reminding  participants not to indulge in useless squabbles.

[LondonL]

On 12/26/2022 at 5:44 AM, DenverSteve said:

 

Howver, and unfortunately, it's just the modern generation(s) who believe that the M, or manual-focus in general, isn't suitable for..... X? Professional motorsports, football basketball, family photos............... have all been done with manual-focus equipment for around 100 years. If you want another camera for your bag, that's certainly understandable. However, those thinking that you can't do what you want without autofocus are incorrect.  Unless your kids are different than those that came before them, you would be fine.  

 

This is incredibly unhelpful. For anyone who actually takes images (instead of talking about it on here), especially images of their toddler kids, will know that the M system is just so inferior to modern AF systems. Yes, I can get a few keepers with a M and my kids, but why make life so much harder for the vanity of shooting an M 🤦‍♂️

Thankfully there have been many sensible replies in this thread, including my own. 

[bobtodrick]

5 hours ago, LondonL said:

This is incredibly unhelpful. For anyone who actually takes images (instead of talking about it on here), especially images of their toddler kids, will know that the M system is just so inferior to modern AF systems. Yes, I can get a few keepers with a M and my kids, but why make life so much harder for the vanity of shooting an M 🤦‍♂️

Thankfully there have been many sensible replies in this thread, including my own. 

Hate to admit, but I agree 100%.

In 45 years of using Leica (lllg, M4, CL), my highest ratio of keepers focus-wise was with my Minilux and now my Q.

Not to say I didn’t have a fair number of perfectly focused crappy photos 😂

Edited December 27, 2022 by bobtodrick

[hdmesa]

A bit of a mashup of suggestions already made: Canon R5 with the super-compact Canon RF 50mm f/1.8. The R5 has similar resolution and FSI sensor tech to the Q2, so the IQ will be very close between them. The R5's eye-AF + continuous AF is unreal – you will have the eyeball (iris, not the eyelashes) in focus 95% of the time provided you choose the right shutter speed to freeze motion. I also recommend the R5 over a Sony option since the Canon menu system is much more like the Q2, and that may help make switching between the cameras more seamless.

If matching the resolution of the Q2 is not essential, the R6 Mark II would be a good choice as well (also an FSI sensor).

[Kim Dahl]

Combining the Q2 with another Camera Canon, Sony or Nikon makes sense.  They will complement each other well.  Especially when you think about photographing your children in motion.  When the Leica SL3 comes on the same level as other brands (Canon, Sony and Nikon), they will perhaps be a better choice if you are a big Leica fan.  Because of the colors, menu settings and the simple way Leica works.  But we are not there yet.  But I would say that it is absolutely not impossible to get a sharp picture with SL of your children.  I have the Canon R3 today as a supplement to my M and TL.  But I hope and pray that Leica will improve the AF and make a 135mm f2, then the Leica SL for my use is as good as complex.  As a photojournalist.  I would not recommend the Canon R 3 for your use.  But like others in the thread suggest the Canon R6 v2 (It's really better specs than version 1) or if you need more pixels the Canon R5 (coming in version 2 later this year) and a smaller 50mm.  Unfortunately it's not a small setup like your q2.

[vedivv]

On 12/24/2022 at 2:45 AM, Qwertynm said:

I agree with the first part of your sentence and don’t understand the second. I have many pictures shot in the last 18 months of our son with the Canon R5 and 35 1.4. The cameras AF system does not become worse with shorter lenses as far as I know. Or maybe I’m misunderstanding you. 
 

I‘d certainly consider a MILC from Sony, Canon, Nikon. Sony has the most mature lens offering while many prefer the haptics and colours of Canon. I don’t know anything about Nikon but the best thing you can do is go to a store and take every camera in your hands and try it out. At this point in camera time there is not much you can do wrong with any of these aforementioned systems. Good luck and congrats on the twins. 

At shorter focal range, there is usually plenty of DOF at normal shooting distance so focus is not as critical.  My Q2 would misfocus on high contrast objects in the background, but once it find face, it generally works OK.  

[tombre]

Leica CL with the 35mm f1.4 is superb quality wise, but auto focus won't keep up with toddlers charging around.

If you want haptics closer to the Q2, then perhaps the Fujifilm XT5 and 35mm 1.4 lens in APSC size.  In full frame maybe the Canon R6 and 50mm f1.8, the lens has an outer custom ring that you can set to aperture.  Or alternatively the just released Panasonic S5 II and either the Panasonic 50mm f1.8 or the Sigma Contemporary 45mm f2 which is small, has an aperture ring and more than enough quality for family photos.

[clasami]

Two options: A7c with Voigtländer 21mm and Sigma 90f2.8 C, or Fuji X-E3 or 4 with 14f2.8 and 50f2. I am mostly using the Sony option - but I am reconsidering Fuji and adding the 90f2.

[vedivv]

On 12/24/2022 at 10:30 AM, lencap said:

I agree with ianforber.  My iPhone 14 Pro is surprisingly capable.  Plenty of reviews on the net if you want details.  In real world use it's hard to beat.  Equivalent of 24-75mm focal length, and can zoom farther with the electronic lens.  You can easily process the images in the Apple ecosystem (or port them to third party options), and have very acceptable stills and video images that can be sent anywhere in seconds.  The iPhone uses the newest computational algos for image processing.  Some prefer a more traditional approach, but I believe computational imaging is the future, and Apple does it very well.  In fact you can argue that Leica uses a form of it as well in the Q camera line, automatically correcting lens distortion for a better image.  The SL platform does as well, extending the correction to L mount lenses.    

Third party apps, like Halide, provide far more manual control than Apple's interface, and there are easy exports to LR/PS and other processing tools.  Best of all the camera is with you all the time, weights a bit over 8 ounces and backups to the cloud, if you want, automatically making on phone storage a non-issue.  All of that costs $999, and for that you also have a top quality phone/internet access and an unlimited suite of apps.

DXOmark reviewed the phone and found it to have the best bokeh, video and still image preview of any phone, with an overall rating of 146.  As a comparison the Leica M11 overall rating is 100 (somewhat different criteria), and it get a very high sensor rating.  The Q2 rating is 96, also getting a high rating on the sensor.  

The full DXO iPhone 14 Pro review is here: https://www.dxomark.com/smartphones/Apple/iPhone-14-Pro

I'm not suggesting we all sell our Leica gear and buy an iPhone, but for the use you cite the iPhone may be one of the better alternatives, especially with the upgraded 48MP sensor that, like the M11, can bin pixels for lower resolution images with better low light capability.  

 

Unfortunately I have to agree with you.  My dedicated cameras take much high quality photos, but my iPhones took so many more meaningful photos.

[Pelu2010]

On 12/24/2022 at 5:08 AM, bobtodrick said:

My son has a Fuji X-E2s.  Very quick A/F and compact...likely about 20% smaller than your M11.

This is a recent photo he took...the B&W is very good.

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Mmmmmh tasty 😋 

[soccerrick10]

On 12/24/2022 at 4:05 AM, Simone_DF said:

If only Leica made a Q with a 50mm lens, right? 🙃 But the boomers on the forum says no, because who knows why.

That’s a pretty broad sweeping and insulting statement.  

In spite of hating labeling people, as a “boomer”, I’d love to have a 50mm Q2/Q2M to compliment my existing Q2M.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica Q

[Pelu2010]

Can we have a little fire 🔥 for hot 🥵 discussions. 
enjoying the thread while looking out the window a d contemplating people walking by.