Valerian72 Posted December 21, 2022 Share #1  Posted December 21, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi! I found a used leica M4-2 for sale, but the serial numbers (1468437) indicate an R3 olive... How can I be sure that it isn't a fake one? Here are some photos. Thx for your help! Olivier  Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/356548-fake-m4-2/?do=findComment&comment=4608947'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 21, 2022 Posted December 21, 2022 Hi Valerian72, Take a look here Fake M4-2 ?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andybarton Posted December 21, 2022 Share #2  Posted December 21, 2022 It's definitely not a fake camera. Rangefinderforum is down at the moment, but this can be found via Google  Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! https://wiki.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/M4-P  Have a look here too  https://www.photo.net/forums/topic/65544-m4-2-serial-number-weirdness/ Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! https://wiki.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/M4-P  Have a look here too  https://www.photo.net/forums/topic/65544-m4-2-serial-number-weirdness/ ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/356548-fake-m4-2/?do=findComment&comment=4608958'>More sharing options...
Valerian72 Posted December 21, 2022 Author Share #3 Â Posted December 21, 2022 Thx. Yeah, sure... I've read that the canadian production may have disturbed the production of serial numbers but I don't know how to recognise a real Leica, so... The owner is an old man who bought it 15 years ago to a collector. What is a right price for these kind of camera, not used for five years, in your opinion ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 21, 2022 Share #4  Posted December 21, 2022 Well, it is pretty hard to fake an M4-2. I’ve never heard of it. At any rate this looks totally genuine to me. The camera and lens both need maintenance. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted December 21, 2022 Share #5 Â Posted December 21, 2022 I have been on this Forum over 20 years. I have never heard of ANY fake Ms. Fake screw threads by the hundreds, as the Russians used to copy them, but no Ms. Yours looks like it could do with a good Clean Lube and Adjust (CLA), especially if it's been sitting around for 15 years. Once it's been serviced, it will do you for another 40 years. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian72 Posted December 21, 2022 Author Share #6 Â Posted December 21, 2022 Thx a lot for your help. I'll see if I can conclude the sale with the owner... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 21, 2022 Share #7  Posted December 21, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) The forum does not do valuations BTW. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian72 Posted December 21, 2022 Author Share #8  Posted December 21, 2022 9 minutes ago, jaapv said: The forum does not do valuations BTW. Ok, no problem Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted December 21, 2022 Share #9  Posted December 21, 2022 they do look a Bit different Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!     1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!     ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/356548-fake-m4-2/?do=findComment&comment=4609172'>More sharing options...
Anbaric Posted December 21, 2022 Share #10 Â Posted December 21, 2022 Interesting that it has both Wetzlar (I suppose for Leitz HQ) and Canada (for production, apparently in a different colour) on the top plate - was that common? It's genuine, of course. There were no straight copies of the M series from which a fake could be fabricated - the Red Flag 20 from China comes closest, but is much more rare and expensive than the equivalent Leica. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted December 21, 2022 Share #11 Â Posted December 21, 2022 Here is a link to a camera on the Collectiblend site. It has the same 'Wetzlar' and 'Made in Canada' engravings and a serial number just a few hundred more than your example; https://collectiblend.com/Cameras/images/Leitz-M4-2-black.jpg Philip. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted December 21, 2022 Share #12 Â Posted December 21, 2022 I guess at that time "Leitz Wetzlar" was the trade mark and "Made in Canada" indicated the country of making good. Later on the confusing Wetzlar/Canada was corrected by just "Leitz" on top and Canada at rear, under the wind-on lever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anbaric Posted December 21, 2022 Share #13 Â Posted December 21, 2022 In those other examples the colours of both engravings look more uniform - maybe it's just the lighting of the OP's photo or the way the paint has aged that makes them look different. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted December 21, 2022 Share #14 Â Posted December 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Anbaric said: In those other examples the colours of both engravings look more uniform - maybe it's just the lighting of the OP's photo or the way the paint has aged that makes them look different. Yes. It could also simply be down to the way the photographer held the camera. If fingers were in contact with the 'Leica' engraving paint when shooting I could understand how that could become grubby over time whereas the 'M4-2' bit is well out of harm's fingers way. It reminded me of the engraving on my old M8.2 where the white paint of the 'M' infill became darker - and eventually wore/fell off - whilst the '8' stayed pretty much pristine white. Clearly there is no doubt that the camera is what it appears to be. It would, however, be a good idea to have it CLA'd as has already been mentioned several times. Philip. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotoklaus Posted December 21, 2022 Share #15  Posted December 21, 2022 A careful cleaning could help to make the camera more desirable. There is just a lot of dirt overthe white letters. A Q-Tip and some gentle cleaner will make them white again. I would rather be aware of fungus inside the camera and the viewfinder. Some dust and dirt on the casing could be wiped away easy, fungus doesn´t. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huss Posted December 21, 2022 Share #16 Â Posted December 21, 2022 I once bought what I thought was a 2022 M6, but it ended up being an MP with a different top cover. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madNbad Posted December 21, 2022 Share #17  Posted December 21, 2022 3 hours ago, Huss said: I once bought what I thought was a 2022 M6, but it ended up being an MP with a different top cover. But it has a "Leitz" red dot! The red dot on the M4-2 seems to appear at random  production cycles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew01 Posted December 21, 2022 Share #18 Â Posted December 21, 2022 12 hours ago, Valerian72 said: Thx. Yeah, sure... I've read that the canadian production may have disturbed the production of serial numbers but I don't know how to recognise a real Leica, so... The owner is an old man who bought it 15 years ago to a collector. What is a right price for these kind of camera, not used for five years, in your opinion ? I recommend researching the value of this camera model at reputable used Leica dealers (who always sell with warranty). Â Based on the photos and the risk factor of buying without a technician checking the camera I would offer 60% of the dealer value. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotoklaus Posted December 22, 2022 Share #19  Posted December 22, 2022 vor 14 Stunden schrieb Huss: I once bought what I thought was a 2022 M6, but it ended up being an MP with a different top cover. Perhaps Leica offers the old M- Pressure Plate as an option... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian72 Posted December 29, 2022 Author Share #20  Posted December 29, 2022 (edited) Hi folks.  Thanks to your advices, I purchased the Leica M4-2. It seems to work properly and smoothly. No fog or mushrooms in the lens. I cleaned a bit with a pencil, and put a roll inside. The film engages and the counter frames works. I got it for 1000 euros, with the elmar 50mm 1/2.8, the sun visor and its original manual. In these days, I think that's a fair price in France. We'll see the results with this test roll, but I think that I'll have it serviced anyway. The shutter dial seems a little bit wobbly, so it might needs an ajustment. Also, the viewfinder could need a little cleanup. Have a nice day!  Olivier  Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited December 29, 2022 by Valerian72 Grammar 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/356548-fake-m4-2/?do=findComment&comment=4619902'>More sharing options...
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