JBA Posted December 5, 2007 Share #41 Posted December 5, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I've gone back to shooting film because I grew up shooting film with manual cameras during the '70s and it's what feels right to me. I like the control and having the camera controls located where I'm used to them. I like the results I get with film and since I can have the images transferred to CD-ROM cheaply and easily, the gap in convenience between film and digital is relatively small. I also find the experience of shooting film more satisfying. I like the physicality of film. I also shoot digital, though my C-Lux 2 is nowhere near as sophisticated as my M6. I am also not very fond of autofocus, which is why I chose the M system over the Nikon D200 I was contemplating. The other thing that annoys me about digital is the relative shift in focal length. I understand exactly what a focal length means in 35mm, but with digital sensors everything shifts toward longer focal lengths. What happens then to the wide angle perspectives I like so much? It's not a trade-off I'm anxious to make for the sake of digital convenience. I'm not about to argue that one or the other medium is inherently superior. They both have their advantages and drawbacks. I enjoy shooting both, but film is my darling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 5, 2007 Posted December 5, 2007 Hi JBA, Take a look here why film feels better??. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
underground Posted December 7, 2007 Share #42 Posted December 7, 2007 Very well said. I agree with you:) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest moonwrack Posted December 9, 2007 Share #43 Posted December 9, 2007 In the end, the picture is the only thing that counts, not the medium. Having said that, film scores in having a depth and individuality that digital lacks. Film also give some guarantee of archival permanence. It seems sensible to operate both together: digital whan you need to take a lot of shots but the project is not imprtant enough to merit printing every one (so saving on time and unnecessary processing) ; film for "art" photography. One can, of course, originate on film and then follow a digital route to the final print. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted December 9, 2007 Share #44 Posted December 9, 2007 It's late at night (here) and I haven't read most of this thread (maybe tomorow!) but picking up on the title - "Why film feels better" I am immediately compelled to say - - Because it has an advance lever! My thumb tells me that feels better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted December 9, 2007 Share #45 Posted December 9, 2007 Film-schmilm / digital-schmigital. It's only the picture that matters: —Mitch/Huahin Flickr: Photos from Mitch Alland Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerimager Posted December 9, 2007 Share #46 Posted December 9, 2007 Great shot Mitch. A dual portrait of a man now, and 30 years younger! best...Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted December 9, 2007 Share #47 Posted December 9, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yes great shot, and ultimately doesn't matter if its on a $5 single use film or a $5K digital. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
valtof Posted December 9, 2007 Share #48 Posted December 9, 2007 It's only the picture that matters: Dear Mitch, This shot (could truly be) / is a keeper, probably taken with your beloved Ricoh GX100 isn't it ? For sure only the result counts but... Won't you have felt better if this shot had been taken with film ? What about the way it would look enlarged to something like even 60x80 cm ? Do you think the (nasty) digital noise would compete the (sensuality of) film grain ? What about the "graphy" of "photo-graphy" ? I don't want to enter any polemic here as I know you're a serious client... I'd prefer to take a glass with you anywhere in Paris... Here is a link to my recent works with my M6. I am really glad that all this hasn't been shot with my M8, because it's film, because it has another depth, it's another world... Photos d'ici et de là... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBA Posted December 10, 2007 Share #49 Posted December 10, 2007 It is exactly because the final picture is what matters that I prefer to shoot with film. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
POKO Posted December 10, 2007 Share #50 Posted December 10, 2007 been using my M8 for almost a year. i absolutely love it and love the fact that i could use my leica glass on instantaneous digital. but i picked up a used lomo over the summer and have been slowly getting back to film. film just has a texture to images that digital can't match without photoshopping. so last week i sold some other gear, added a few dollars and picked up a used R9 and 35/lux. took all day yesterday walking around the city, took 6 rolls, and i haven't even developed the films yet, but i have to say i haven't had such a satisfying day with my camera in a very long time. what is it about taking pictures on film that makes it so much more satisfying than digital? composition and exposure are thought out a little more before pressing the shutter because each film images feels more precious than digital to me. is it just me? Perhaps you should look at your images before you pass judgement or fall victim to some kind of romantic delusion. Just a thought... P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
POKO Posted December 10, 2007 Share #51 Posted December 10, 2007 It is exactly because the final picture is what matters that I prefer to shoot with film. Thank you for sharing. Now I can comfortably sell my digital gear and return to film. That was just what I needed to help me make my decision... P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted December 10, 2007 Share #52 Posted December 10, 2007 Thank you for sharing. Now I can comfortably sell my digital gear and return to film. That was just what I needed to help me make my decision... P Surely this is a personal decision, you prefer digital, I for one prefer film – who is right? The question you have to ask yourself POKO is why you came onto a film forum and made a snide remark about someone who 'sees' the issues differently? What is it about digital photographers that makes them so insecure when someone states they prefer film that they have prove their purchase? Why is it they think when film users express a preference they "fall victim to some kind of romantic delusion". I can only think that they are not as satisfied or secure with their purchases as they think Regards Mark (Romantic, deluded, luddite, elitist in denial) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoskeptic Posted December 10, 2007 Share #53 Posted December 10, 2007 Well said, Mark. I'm in complete agreement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted December 10, 2007 Share #54 Posted December 10, 2007 ...This shot (could truly be) / is a keeper, probably taken with your beloved Ricoh GX100 isn't it ?For sure only the result counts but... Won't you have felt better if this shot had been taken with film ? What about the way it would look enlarged to something like even 60x80 cm ? Do you think the (nasty) digital noise would compete the (sensuality of) film grain ? What about the "graphy" of "photo-graphy" ? I don't want to enter any polemic here as I know you're a serious client... I'd prefer to take a glass with you anywhere in Paris... It was indeed shot with the GRD. But I'm sitting here with two 100x150cm prints on the wall, one shot with the M6 on Tri-X and the other with the GRD at ISO800. How a large digital print looks depends on how it has been processed and sharpened. In the case of this GRD picture — actually it's 100x133cm — I really do not think that it would make a difference had it been shot on film. I agree entirely with Mark that people should shoot with film or digital according to what they prefer and there should not be what amounts to a religious argument as what is "better". They may look different but what is better depends on the photographer and his or her preference. Would love to have a drink with you, Christophe, in Paris but now I'm in Thailand, where I live, but shall be back in Paris in January or April, or anytime in between. —Mitch/Huahin Flickr: Photos from Mitch Alland Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted December 10, 2007 Share #55 Posted December 10, 2007 Yes great shot, and ultimately doesn't matter if its on a $5 single use film or a $5K digital.Mark Thanks, Mark. Absolutely, I agree entirely. —Mitch/Huahin Flickr: Photos from Mitch Alland Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBA Posted December 10, 2007 Share #56 Posted December 10, 2007 I agree entirely with Mark that people should shoot with film or digital according to what they prefer and there should not be what amounts to a religious argument as what is "better". They may look different but what is better depends on the photographer and his or her preference. Well said. That's basically what I was saying stated in terms of my own personal preference at this point in time. I think arguing for the inherent superiority of either medium is a silly exercise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
POKO Posted December 10, 2007 Share #57 Posted December 10, 2007 Hi All, Well, I feel I owe you all a huge apology. I am very sorry for my less than constructive comments. Being in a bad mood + lots of red wine + the forum = disaster. Sorry for being a #%&!. Per Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted December 10, 2007 Share #58 Posted December 10, 2007 It is exactly because the final picture is what matters that I prefer to shoot with film. There's no doubt that if it was only the final picture that mattered i would be film - it might be 10x8 film or 5x7, 5x4 ....... 6x4.5, but for 98% of us it would be film. Some suggest that the M8 is a match for MF, but present no evidence for this massive claim, in spite of analysing the crap out of two competing quality 35mm lenses. It isn't a match; it might be good enough, but there's no match. Photography has many rewards, gear ownership, community, study, fieldwork, processing, print making ..... and much more. It's a craft for most, with art for some. The involvement with film is more biased to film where snapping away is pointless and a considered approach is encouraged by the effort that must follow. For some, that craft involvement is valued, for others it's unwanted. I suggest that's a pretty good dividing line on which to decide what you want. Digital can be demanding and just as involved, but my observation and personal experience suggests that not enough effort is put into digital images because the investment (time & effort) is less and the judgement is fleeting. If the end result was a print for display I suspect standards would rise, but never again will a print be a measure, the internet is our community. So Charles, if you want more of the craft and not so much of the convenience film is your way. Rolo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted December 10, 2007 Share #59 Posted December 10, 2007 There's no doubt that if it was only the final picture that mattered i would be film - it might be 10x8 film or 5x7, 5x4 ....... 6x4.5, but for 98% of us it would be film. Some suggest that the M8 is a match for MF, but present no evidence for this massive claim, in spite of analysing the crap out of two competing quality 35mm lenses. It isn't a match; it might be good enough, but there's no match. Photography has many rewards, gear ownership, community, study, fieldwork, processing, print making ..... and much more. It's a craft for most, with art for some. The involvement with film is more biased to film where snapping away is pointless and a considered approach is encouraged by the effort that must follow. For some, that craft involvement is valued, for others it's unwanted. I suggest that's a pretty good dividing line on which to decide what you want. Digital can be demanding and just as involved, but my observation and personal experience suggests that not enough effort is put into digital images because the investment (time & effort) is less and the judgement is fleeting. If the end result was a print for display I suspect standards would rise, but never again will a print be a measure, the internet is our community. So Charles, if you want more of the craft and not so much of the convenience film is your way. Rolo Rolo, you're jut expressing your feeling about the superiority of film, but whether people take greater care to print film than digital is, again, merely a matter of personal preference. In my case you're simply wrong — I'm very interested in the final print quality, which is much more important to me than how the picture looks on a computer; and. as that is true for many people who print digitally, you assertion becomes simply your own prejudice. Now, for street photography I like digital because cameras like the the D-Lux 3 and the Ricoh GRD lean me a "looser" shooting style that I value. But that doesn't mean that I print haphazardly. I shot the picture above I shot while on a way to an important meeting, a situation in which I would not have had my M6 with me; but I wouldn't make the silly claim that this means that I could not have shot this picture at all with film in this situation: I could have carried a Ricoh GRD1 film camera on my belt, which is the same size as the GRD. The difference, then would be that I would feel that, by framing on the LCD, that is, by sort of waving the camera around I would still have a "loser" or more fluid shooting style with the digital GRD than with the film GR1, whose viewfinder I would bring up to my eye to frame because it obviously has no LCD. But this would be true for me, but perhaps not for other people, as Moriyama Daido famously often frames with the GR1 and GR21 film cameras just by pointing them in the direction of the subject. So, again, digital-schmigital, film-schmilm — it's only the picture that matters and the photographer's preference. Whether one prints better or more carefully with one or the other are personal preferences or, at worst, prejudices. I an afraid that I can give no quarter when arguments are made for innate superiority for digital or for film when these, at best, are only the preference or, at worst, merely a prejudice. —Mitch/Huahin Flickr: Photos from Mitch Alland Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted December 10, 2007 Share #60 Posted December 10, 2007 I suspect you've missed my point Mitch. I run digital alongside film and don't consider myself prejudiced, but rather well informed of the capability of available media through digital MF and LF film. I was not restricting the point to a like for like 35mm v a crop sensor comparison, which is perhaps what you're doing? Film wins comfortably if you go big enough, but few here want to make that journey. Perhaps it's not me that's "simply wrong". One doesn't refer to a GRD when discussing 'real' print quality, no matter who the photographer is. Rolo Rolo, you're jut expressing your feeling about the superiority of film, Now, for street photography I like digital because cameras like the the D-Lux 3 and the Ricoh GRD lean me a "looser" shooting style that I value. But that doesn't mean that I print haphazardly. So, again, digital-schmigital, film-schmilm — it's only the picture that matters and the photographer's preference. Whether one prints better or more carefully with one or the other are personal preferences or, at worst, prejudices. I an afraid that I can give no quarter when arguments are made for innate superiority for digital or for film when these, at best, are only the preference or, at worst, merely a prejudice. —Mitch/Huahin Flickr: Photos from Mitch Alland Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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