Brand new MP/M-A/M6 film scratches [Merged]

[Mute-on]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

5 minutes ago, Matlock said:

Sadly enough people have got it into their heads that the pressure plate is to blame and that now is, in their view, the only answer. It is quite obvious that the plate is not to blame but no one will now accept that. Several have claimed that the screws are the culprits and then show pictures of scratches that don't match up to the screw line. Lost cause I am afraid.

The lost cause is that owners of the cameras that scratch film are searching for an explanation that seems immediately plausible. The interminable frustration is that a replacement pressure plate has resolved the issue in a handful of cases, yet in others it seems the cause is elsewhere.
 

What is inexcusable is that Leica is also unable to accurately diagnose and resolve the cause with any consistency either. Given the age of the fundamental technology and the many decades of experience it has in in deploying it, the fact that Leica seems incapable of producing a film camera in 2023 that operates as it should, and without damaging the very media that it relies upon to function, totally beggars belief. 

[Matlock]

24 minutes ago, Mute-on said:

The lost cause is that owners of the cameras that scratch film are searching for an explanation that seems immediately plausible. The interminable frustration is that a replacement pressure plate has resolved the issue in a handful of cases, yet in others it seems the cause is elsewhere.
 

What is inexcusable is that Leica is also unable to accurately diagnose and resolve the cause with any consistency either. Given the age of the fundamental technology and the many decades of experience it has in in deploying it, the fact that Leica seems incapable of producing a film camera in 2023 that operates as it should, and without damaging the very media that it relies upon to function, totally beggars belief. 

"Immediately plausible" they may be but in most cases they are not the answer. I believe that, because people have accepted that the pressure plate is to blame they request a change of plate which usually does not cure the problem. As to your last point I think we should reflect on how many cases of scratched film have  actually been substantiated, so far I have counted only three but there are many "my M6 also scratches film" but with no proof. I could post that my M6 scratches film and that post would be believed by a large percentage of members of this forum, however it would be untrue as I don't have a M6.  It appears to me that there has been a deliberate attempt to cloud the new M6 with high degree of malevolence, off the back of a small number of very genuine issues. We shall see in time no doubt.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Matlock

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Matlock said:

...so far I have counted only three but there are many "my M6 also scratches film" but with no proof. I could post that my M6 scratches film and that post would be believed by a large percentage of members of this forum, however it would be untrue as I don't have a M6.  It appears to me that there has been a deliberate attempt to cloud the new M6 with high degree of malevolence, off the back of a small number of very genuine issues.

As a lawyer, let me tell you that statements are absolutely a form of proof. In fact, it is you who doesn't deliver any proof that those statements are untrue. You also don't deliver any proof that people deliberately attempt to cloud the new M6 with a high degree of malevolence. That's such a mighty speculation, which seems actually malevolent in itself. You're projecting big time. What are you even defending or standing up for? Is liking Leica a part of your personality and do you feel personally attacked when someone complaints about receiving a faulty camera? And what is proof anyways in your opinion? Someone posting a picture of a roll of film with scratches on it? Then you could just say they did it themselves.

[Matlock]

14 minutes ago, Garantenstellung said:

As a lawyer, let me tell you that statements are absolutely a form of proof. In fact, it is you who doesn't deliver any proof that those statements are untrue. You also don't deliver any proof that people deliberately attempt to cloud the new M6 with a high degree of malevolence. That's such a mighty speculation, which seems actually malevolent in itself. You're projecting big time. What are you even defending or standing up for? Is liking Leica a part of your personality and do you feel personally attacked when someone complaints about receiving a faulty camera? And what is proof anyways in your opinion? Someone posting a picture of a roll of film with scratches on it? Then you could just say they did it themselves.

Well I am glad that you will never be my lawyer if you believe that a statement is a form of proof. Leica have some issues to address but posts such as your will not help them. Take a leaf out of Huss and a couple of other's book and post something constructive and them we may get to the route cause of the film scratching issue. 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Matlock said:

Well I am glad that you will never be my lawyer if you believe that a statement is a form of proof. Leica have some issues to address but posts such as your will not help them. Take a leaf out of Huss and a couple of other's book and post something constructive and them we may get to the route cause of the film scratching issue. 

Thanks for the genuine laugh. You're obviously trolling. 

I think Leica themselves need to find out what causes the scratching issue, crazy opinion right? They've been making M-cameras for almost 70 years now. 

[Fotoklaus]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb earleygallery:

This isn't how the pressure plate works - it presses up against the 'film guide rails' that run above and below the film path creating a thin slot to allow the film to travel freely but also keeping it as flat as it needs to be.

I have said many times I'm not sure that these scratcher cameras are down to the pressure plates but some other defect somewhere. On the M there are a few points where the film runs that cannot be seen and would seem more likely (given that nobody so far has reported finding a sharp point on the pressure plates and it would have to be pretty obvious to be able to scratch the film).

Yes, we already took pictures of the film chamber, the body and discussed possibilities here and there. And even if we knew what the reason is: Should the TO disassemble his new camera and grab some sandpaper to fix the problem?

[Matlock]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

1 hour ago, Garantenstellung said:

Thanks for the genuine laugh. You're obviously trolling. 

I think Leica themselves need to find out what causes the scratching issue, crazy opinion right? They've been making M-cameras for almost 70 years now. 

Pleased that enjoyed my reply. Pot calling the kettle I would think. Yes they have been making M-cameras for 69 years (and LTM cameras for getting on for 100 years). Amazingly they still repair cameras that were made long before any of their staff were born, not many companies can boast that. Luckily the number of faults are extremely small. Having said that, even one fault is one too many but no one, even you, is perfect.

But keep trolling as we all enjoy your comments 🙂  

[oldwino]

8 hours ago, LuckySquirrel said:

So I ended up ordering this Shueido M2, a Cameraworks RLK, and a Keks KM02. Pretty stoked and can't wait to start using it! I also put my name on a few wait lists for a BP MP in the future 🙂.

Nice looking M2. I would be curious to learn your opinion of the repaint quality once you receive it. 

[Huss]

edit - Leica NJ received my camera for their 2nd attempt to fix last Tuesday, but it is not yet in their system.  They send a tracking acknowledgment.

Even though I was promised that it would be taken care if immediately.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Huss

[LocalHero1953]

9 minutes ago, Huss said:

edit - Leica NJ received my camera for their 2nd attempt to fix last Tuesday, but it is not yet in their system.  They send a tracking acknowledgment.

Even though I was promised that it would be taken care if immediately.

Do you know if it will (be attempted to) be fixed by Leica NJ or will it go to Germany? I think you said it went to Germany last time.

Edited February 6, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[madNbad]

14 minutes ago, Huss said:

edit - Leica NJ received my camera for their 2nd attempt to fix last Tuesday, but it is not yet in their system.  They send a tracking acknowledgment.

Even though I was promised that it would be taken care if immediately.

Since they have already checked the low hanging fruit, cleaning the pressures plate and looking for obvious burrs, hopefully this time they will look for the outliers. There is the possibility of the rewind clutch not fully releasing causing drag, the film could be catching a rough spot as it enters the take up well or any of a dozen other things. The proper route would have been an apology included with a new camera but that’s not likely to happen. Keep us posted, inquiring minds want to know.

[Matlock]

32 minutes ago, Huss said:

edit - Leica NJ received my camera for their 2nd attempt to fix last Tuesday, but it is not yet in their system.  They send a tracking acknowledgment.

Even though I was promised that it would be taken care if immediately.

I hope that there will be a satisfactory outcome this time, you have waited for far too long.

[LuckySquirrel]

2 hours ago, oldwino said:

Nice looking M2. I would be curious to learn your opinion of the repaint quality once you receive it. 

Definitely happy to start a new thread with overall impressions and to answer any questions forum members may have regarding Shueido as an option (since I know I've personally seen conflicting reviews out there on them).

Now I need to order some more HP5 to fill my stock back up lol.

[Huss]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Do you know if it will (be attempted to) be fixed by Leica NJ or will it go to Germany? I think you said it went to Germany last time.

No, it went to Leica NJ

[Huss]

1 hour ago, madNbad said:

Since they have already checked the low hanging fruit, cleaning the pressures plate and looking for obvious burrs, hopefully this time they will look for the outliers. There is the possibility of the rewind clutch not fully releasing causing drag, the film could be catching a rough spot as it enters the take up well or any of a dozen other things. The proper route would have been an apology included with a new camera but that’s not likely to happen. Keep us posted, inquiring minds want to know.

But did they check anything?  The last work order said 'clean and adjust pressure plate'.  They never bothered to check if that fixed the scratching.  If they checked...

[Huss]

Congrats!  Great looking camera.  FYI mpex.com as excellent prices on HP5

 

[Steve Ricoh]

1 hour ago, madNbad said:

Since they have already checked the low hanging fruit, cleaning the pressures plate and looking for obvious burrs, hopefully this time they will look for the outliers. There is the possibility of the rewind clutch not fully releasing causing drag, the film could be catching a rough spot as it enters the take up well or any of a dozen other things. The proper route would have been an apology included with a new camera but that’s not likely to happen. Keep us posted, inquiring minds want to know.

I’m trying unsuccessfully to imagine the diagnostic tools at the disposal of Leica Germany or in NJ. More likely to be trial and error.

Has anyone attempted to correlate the scratches from one camera to another? Doing so could offer a lead…

Edited February 6, 2023 by Steve Ricoh

[logan2z]

44 minutes ago, Huss said:

But did they check anything?  The last work order said 'clean and adjust pressure plate'.  They never bothered to check if that fixed the scratching.  If they checked...

They must have forgotten Step 9...

https://robbreport.com/gear/cameras/gallery/genius-at-work-m6-leica-1234797734/

Edited February 6, 2023 by logan2z

[madNbad]

36 minutes ago, Steve Ricoh said:

I’m trying unsuccessfully to imagine the diagnostic tools at the disposal of Leica Germany or in NJ. More likely to be trial and error.

Has anyone attempted to correlate the scratches from one camera to another? Doing so could offer a lead…

I guess Leica NJ is going to have to start by disassembling the camera and checking the parts as they go back together. 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[madNbad]

46 minutes ago, Huss said:

But did they check anything?  The last work order said 'clean and adjust pressure plate'.  They never bothered to check if that fixed the scratching.  If they checked...

I thought they at least looked for burrs or abrasions. I guess when the Kimwipe didn’t snag, it was considered “go to go”.