Speculation: Hasselblad H lenses or Contax 645 Lenses on S 007

[Stuart Richardson]

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I can't directly compare to Contax, but I would agree with Bernard. In my experience the S lenses, particularly the wide angles are leaps and bounds better than most medium format lenses that came before them. At one point I shot a Hy6 with a 22mp back. The S was like jumping forward twenty years into the future. (Not as much the camera, though that too, but especially the back). I remember being shocked how much better the 35mm S lens was than the 40mm Schneider Curtagon and Zeiss Distagon. At this point the prices for S gear are so rock bottom that I cannot see much logic in seeking out the adapters and trying to use the older generation of MF lenses, unless you are doing so for very specific reasons around the rendering of specific lenses. But in most best case scenarios, you will have a lens that does ok or well, but not nearly as good as a native S lens. The S lenses forced other manufacturers like Phase One, Hasselblad and Fuji to up their game, and they still have not equaled them in terms of consistency and character.

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[Einst_Stein]

Please show sample images.

[mgrayson3]

34 minutes ago, Einst_Stein said:

Please show sample images.

That's a tough request, as not many people are doing contemporaneous comparisons. Here are two images (yes, it's an accident that the older lens is photographing the older building):

Contax 35/3.5 @ f/11 Leica S(006)

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Leica S35/2.5 @ f/11 S(006)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Matt

Edited December 6, 2022 by mgrayson3

[mgrayson3]

Oh, here are 100% crop

Contax

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Leica

[Stuart Richardson]

21 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

Please show sample images.

I have been trying to find ones from the Curtagon, which I mostly shot in 2006-2009, but it is complicated by the fact that the cameras then did not record metadata. I have found a few images I know are from it, but the ones that are the most obvious are boring image from a focus test. But I found one or two with a model I don't have a release for that appear to have been shot closer to wide open. In general looking at them they show very high distortion, by comparison, and softer edges with more signs of slight fringing etc. These are also on 22mp, instead of 37mp. I can't fit the crop of the S2 yet, but that image is shot at f2.5 (by mistake, actually), and the sharpness and acuity is on another level. (As it should be, given that it is much newer and designed without much compromise). I will try to come back and show it tomorrow when I get more upload space.

 

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[John McMaster]

23 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

Please show sample images.

Are you expecting that a film era lens is comparable to a more modern aspheric lens designed for digital?

john

[mgrayson3]

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Nothing anyone else can say or show is going to be convincing. If you really want to know, you're going to have to try them both. I have done that (and still have both lenses), but it doesn't matter what I say. Go try them.

Ignoring my own advice: My three best photos ever (excluding Soup the cat, of course) were taken with the S35, S24, and XCD 45, in that order. These are pry-from-my-cold-dead-fingers lenses. Yes, it's the photog and not the equipment, but the photog is held constant here, so the optimization is constrained 😆.

[Stuart Richardson]

I also think that no one is consciously trying to take anything away from those older lenses. The Contax ones in particular were excellent. However, looking at eBay I see that two 35mm Summarit S lenses sold somewhat recently. One for 2400 dollars and the other for 1250 (!). This is a 7800 dollar lens currently at B&H and it was priced in this range even back on 2009 or so when it came out. Meanwhile, the Contax 35mm lenses sell for around 800-1000 dollars and the adapter costs another 700+. Personally it seems reasonable to me to get the native lens, given that it is not that much more expensive on the used market and it has numerous advantages when used on the S body. For example, it is fully weather sealed, it is f2.5, the autofocus system is calibrated together to account for focus shift and other small variations (Leica S lenses and bodies have their focus characteristics programmed in, so the bodies and lenses can work together more accurately). In addition to these advantages, it also is at least to some extent, a better lens optically. If you already have a series of Contax lenses and want to make use of them, that is one thing, but it does not seem to be the most pragmatic decision if you are going to seek them out specifically to use on the S.

Edited December 7, 2022 by Stuart Richardson

[Pieter12]

The only reasons I would want to use a non-native lens on the S is that it is smaller and lighter than the S equivalent, or I already own it.

[Einst_Stein]

15 hours ago, John McMaster said:

Are you expecting that a film era lens is comparable to a more modern aspheric lens designed for digital?

john

It Is irrelevant. Just want to see it besides to read it.

[Einst_Stein]

15 hours ago, mgrayson3 said:

Nothing anyone else can say or show is going to be convincing. If you really want to know, you're going to have to try them both. I have done that (and still have both lenses), but it doesn't matter what I say. Go try them.

Ignoring my own advice: My three best photos ever (excluding Soup the cat, of course) were taken with the S35, S24, and XCD 45, in that order. These are pry-from-my-cold-dead-fingers lenses. Yes, it's the photog and not the equipment, but the photog is held constant here, so the optimization is constrained 😆.

Don’t be afraid to show the images if you are fully convinced of what you said. Make it enjoyable, that’s it.

[mgrayson3]

11 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

Don’t be afraid to show the images if you are fully convinced of what you said. Make it enjoyable, that’s it.

I am fully aware that if I needed to make a living via photography, I would starve. 

The Oculus. S35

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One and Two World Trade Center, S24

56 Leonard Street. XCD 45 (some processing 😇)

 

Edited December 8, 2022 by mgrayson3

[Einst_Stein]

Enjoy self is the priority.

[Stuart Richardson]

I forgot to post the other pictures. Sorry! Here are center and edge from the 35mm Summarit pic I posted before. Those are at 2.5...

I will include some others from the S35mm that I think show off its character. The vertical portrait is at 2.5, the horizontal at 4.8, and the others at f8. In my experience the way that the S lenses behave is really excellent, not just in sharpness, but in everything from low distortion to low bokeh fringing and pleasant bokeh. They are still among the best lenses Leica has ever made. I would take them over any of the M lenses I have used when it comes to pure image quality. The only ones that seem to outdo them are the SL lenses, and even then it is is more their extreme sharpness and freedom from aberrations more than their character (which I still think is excellent).

 

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[John McMaster]

1 hour ago, Stuart Richardson said:

They are still among the best lenses Leica has ever made. I would take them over any of the M lenses I have used when it comes to pure image quality.

Indeed, I have sold most of my M lenses as the S(007) made them redundant.  Might sell my remaining (M9, M(240), CCD Monochrom, 35mm Summilux FLE, f1.0 Noctilux, 50mm Summilux asph and 50mm APO Summicron) kit and buy a Hasselblad X2D for a lighter kit than my S stuff....

john

[Einst_Stein]

Personally M is still my best overall. IQ wise definitely far more than enough, convenience  and handling is second to none. 
Among Leica‘s offering, there is no one size fits all.

Sometimes, like full day or over night hiking, I would pick CL or XV. For touring museum or so, SL +  24-90 works better, it is heavy, but save the trouble of carrying and switching lens. I found it is actually more pick-pocket proof (I have lost several pocketable cameras, but never stupid elephant size).  For pure photography outings, when tripod is unavoidable, Contax 645 (digital) and Hasselblad V (for film).  I have not owned and used S yet. It is attempting.

But when it comes to the question which camera I prefer the most, regardless the context, It is definitely M. 

I would not recommend selling M in favor of anything else, including any other Leica in the past, present or future. Yes, I am betting even the future Leica. I think many old and new Leica system come and go,, but M will always stay.

 

[John McMaster]

I owned most of the M lenses, once I started printing larger than A2 they were not up to it IMO.  Some of the lenses look wonderful in web images, but less so when printed large....

john

[Einst_Stein]

On 12/11/2022 at 5:56 AM, John McMaster said:

I owned most of the M lenses, once I started printing larger than A2 they were not up to it IMO.  Some of the lenses look wonderful in web images, but less so when printed large....

john

Improve your shooting and printing skill.

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by Einst_Stein

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[John McMaster]

12 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

Improve your shooting and printing skill.

How insulting, goodbye

john

[Pieter12]

8 hours ago, John McMaster said:

How insulting, goodbye

john

Lewis Baltz's work at first struck me as haven been shot with a LF camera. It turns out, he used a Leica 35mm camera with Kodak Technical Pan, carefully set up on a tripod.

https://davidcampany.com/fast-worlds-slow-photography/