ho_co Posted January 7, 2011 Share #101 Posted January 7, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Jack, that's peculiar to say the least. A person in customer service didn't know whether it's usual for a Unique Image ID to be reset by formatting the card? That is crazy. "Others may do it that way, but not us?" Maybe so, but I'd like more information. Maybe the question to ask is: "If I send you a camera whose "Unique Image ID is 0, can you tell me how many shutter actuations it has had?" If they haven't called back by Tuesday, I'd call back. Give them that long because if they've passed you on to the person I think, he'll get back with accurate information, but he's snowed. I'd be annoyed in your place, but try not to get snippy with them. They're good. I've sometimes thought they've given me wrong information, but then discovered that they're right. (And while you're getting this squared away by phone, you can still be out shooting. ) Thanks for the update. We're in your corner--for what little that may be worth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 Hi ho_co, Take a look here Determining Shutter Actuations on an M8. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
bonjac Posted January 7, 2011 Share #102 Posted January 7, 2011 Just got a callback from Leica (Justin). Very good discussion. The bottom line is that he has never heard of such a problem and it "blew his mind". I went through everything we have done (thanks to everyone's suggestions) and he said we had done everything right and he was going to call an engineer friend at Leica Germany. He is also going to check with a couple of sources within the company and will get back to me next week. I was impressed with this man and his immediate willingness to help sort this out. More to come. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted January 7, 2011 Share #103 Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) Great, Jack! There you go. Contact! He knows his stuff. I'm not surprised that it "blew his mind." As a number of us have said, what's happening to you should be completely impossible. Just curious--did he confirm our assumptions about the Unique Image ID being a shutter actuation count (contrary to what your first contact suggested)? Edited January 7, 2011 by ho_co Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonjac Posted January 7, 2011 Share #104 Posted January 7, 2011 I think so, yes. But, I will ask him specifically when we speak again. The impression I had during the conversation was that it is the actuations counter. Cheers 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted January 9, 2011 Share #105 Posted January 9, 2011 I think so, yes. But, I will ask him specifically when we speak again. The impression I had during the conversation was that it is the actuations counter. Cheers Could you please post a image here without stripping out the EXIF data. I really want to take a look at it. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonjac Posted January 10, 2011 Share #106 Posted January 10, 2011 Sorry, I have tried to do this several times and can't get the image to attach. I have resized several times and finally gave up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonjac Posted February 3, 2011 Share #107 Posted February 3, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Her's an update. Leica had me reinstall the firmware. It solved half of the problem. The image accumulation of actuations is now working properly. The bad news is the when the firmware was installed, the unique image ID went to zero and started from there. Leica is not sure if they will be able to get at the actual number and reset it. I have sent the camera in to them. More to come. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted February 4, 2011 Share #108 Posted February 4, 2011 Jack, thanks for the update. Very interesting that re-installing the firmware fixed the problem. I doubt that they'll be able to retrieve the number of actuations to date, since doing so would imply that there were another counter that we're not aware of. But on the bright side, you'll own a forever low-mileage camera. And you've made us all aware of a dissociation we didn't know was possible. Let us know how it all plays out! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonjac Posted February 4, 2011 Share #109 Posted February 4, 2011 Hi Howard. Something still doesn't make sense to me and I am hoping a technician will get to the bottom of it. After I reinstalled the firmware and told them the "counter" was working properly, they said the "error" in the old firmware install was probably not sending the count to the main board. OK but that means either the main board has never had a count since the camera was built, there is a count on the main board that is still not being accessed and tabulated, or the old firmware erased the main board. Supposedly, there "may" be another way to determine actual count from data on the board. Really bizarre. Meanwhile I am getting reacquainted with my Nikon D700. Thanks for your interest. Cheers, Jack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted February 4, 2011 Share #110 Posted February 4, 2011 ... Really bizarre.... Absolutely the right word, Jack! Usually, one can't reach the technician directly, and properly so--he's busy repairing cameras and hasn't time to explain the repairs individually. What that means is that your repair "estimate" paperwork contains all the information you're going to see unless you follow up by phone, either with Justin or with the customer service ladies. It really is bizarre and fascinating; I think a lot of us are curious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonjac Posted March 30, 2011 Share #111 Posted March 30, 2011 Hi Howard, Well, here is the followup. I sent the camera into Leica describing the problem and asking that they service the camera while they had it. Received the camera yesterday. Much to my chagrin, I had specifically asked they tell me the number of actuations on the camera, there was no mention of shutter actuation count. Sooooo, I called today and asked if they could give me the count. After some discussion and "checking with the technician" I was told that when I did the firmware update (2.005) the counter was reset. I asked if this was true in general when a firmware update is installed. I was told yes. That strikes me as really, really strange. From the service invoice it appears Leica did fairly extensive work on the camera (metering system check, lub and adjust all fuctions, adjust R/F, repair focus upgrade to current standard). So the camera is currently in first class condition but there is no history of past usage. I don't know how to represent the camera if I decide to sell it, I do know what the file number history was, so I guess I use that and explain what has happened. Anyhow, I thought you might be interested in the reset that occurs when updating the firmware. Regards, Jack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leica8 Posted March 30, 2011 Share #112 Posted March 30, 2011 Love this M8 members, I just got this "New to me" M8" last week and I love it. (Sold all my Nikon D300 and few lenes to get into the Leica world) so, what would be M8 shutter actuations on my M8? Thank you in advance Steven Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted March 30, 2011 Share #113 Posted March 30, 2011 (edited) ... After some discussion and "checking with the technician" I was told that when I did the firmware update (2.005) the counter was reset. I asked if this was true in general when a firmware update is installed. I was told yes. That strikes me as really, really strange.... Jack, that seems very strange to me as well. Thanks for posting the results. I can understand that shutter actuations which occurred while the disconnect was present would be lost. And I wouldn't worry about representing the camera to a buyer; if he's interested, he'll ask, and you can tell him about the repair. But I don't think it's true that all 2.005 firmware updates reset the counter. I haven't heard that before, and I think the person you were talking to is wrong. I wouldn't worry about it. I've got no idea how many exposures I've made with my M8, and I figure it'll work long enough, and then I'll get it fixed. Of course, I can always check the Image Unique ID. And if that was reset with a firmware change, then it, too, is meaningless. In your case, your camera will display its own Image Unique ID. And it will be truly "unique." I guess it's like buying a car whose odometer has been rolled back. You can't know for sure, and anyway, whatever repairs the car needs will be the same whether you know or not. Really an interesting story. Thanks for letting us know! Edited March 30, 2011 by ho_co Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted March 30, 2011 Share #114 Posted March 30, 2011 (edited) Steven-- Welcome to the forum! And to the world of the M8. I think you'll really like the camera. I do mine. Nice, filmy, dreamy picture, by the way. ... what would be M8 shutter actuations on my M8? ... When you select a file, your image processor will probably display a string called "Image Unique ID." That's the shutter actuation count. But since it's in hexadecimal, you'll need to convert it to decimal with the calculator on your computer, or by using any of the many hex-dec converters on the Web. There's more information in the earlier posts in this thread. Edited March 30, 2011 by ho_co Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonjac Posted March 30, 2011 Share #115 Posted March 30, 2011 Howard, One last thing. When they told me the firmware update reset the counter, they said that if I looked at the invoice, I would see the explanation. The invoice read: "DATA NLA (FIRMWARE UPDATE)". They explained that NLA meant No Longer Available. But, you have to wonder why the count is reset--perhaps it is the nature of the firmware. I was just puzzled by this because of the earlier posts saying the count is never reset. Strange world. The camera is working beautifully and I will probably keep for some time. Regards, Jack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted March 30, 2011 Share #116 Posted March 30, 2011 Howard, One last thing. When they told me the firmware update reset the counter, they said that if I looked at the invoice, I would see the explanation. The invoice read: "DATA NLA (FIRMWARE UPDATE)". They explained that NLA meant No Longer Available. But, you have to wonder why the count is reset--perhaps it is the nature of the firmware. I was just puzzled by this because of the earlier posts saying the count is never reset. Strange world. The camera is working beautifully and I will probably keep for some time. Regards, Jack What happens with some firmware updates is the IMAGE COUNTER gets reset, back to 0001. Not the Shutter activation count. The tech, as usual, has mistaken your request for the shutter activation count as the image count. But it seems from some type of hardware error or failure that the shuuter activation counter was reset and broken, IE not recording new activations. So there was no way for them to tell you how many times the shutter opened and closed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonjac Posted March 30, 2011 Share #117 Posted March 30, 2011 Shootist, Thank you. I must admit that is somewhat frustrating. If what you say is true, then there must have been and remains some kind of number (accurate or otherwise). Assuming the shutter counter is never reset. I will also admit to being a little stubborn when it comes to these sort of things so I am going to pursue it further. If there is a value there (in the shutter counter), then I would like to know what it is and compare it the file counter value I had until the reset. BUt, more fundamentally, the question remains. Is the shutter counter ever reset and, if so, under what conditions. Thanks for you comments. Jack 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted March 31, 2011 Share #118 Posted March 31, 2011 Shootist, Thank you. I must admit that is somewhat frustrating. If what you say is true, then there must have been and remains some kind of number (accurate or otherwise). Assuming the shutter counter is never reset. I will also admit to being a little stubborn when it comes to these sort of things so I am going to pursue it further. If there is a value there (in the shutter counter), then I would like to know what it is and compare it the file counter value I had until the reset. BUt, more fundamentally, the question remains. Is the shutter counter ever reset and, if so, under what conditions. Thanks for you comments. Jack Normally it is never reset. Even those that have had the shutter replaced, original, or upgraded, newer lower top speed shutter, have retained the total shutter activation count (yes even though the camera has a new shutter in it). In your case something was wrong with the hardware. The camera stopped recording the activation count. Since it no longer counted the open close cycle there is no way to tell how many times that happened Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert N Posted March 31, 2011 Share #119 Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) Steven - The shutter count of your camera is 1340 (53C hex) Love this M8 members, I just got this "New to me" M8" last week and I love it. (Sold all my Nikon D300 and few lenes to get into the Leica world) so, what would be M8 shutter actuations on my M8? Steven Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited March 31, 2011 by Bert N Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/34953-determining-shutter-actuations-on-an-m8/?do=findComment&comment=1630985'>More sharing options...
ho_co Posted March 31, 2011 Share #120 Posted March 31, 2011 Bravo, Bert, good thought! It didn't occur to me to check Steven's shot! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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