We don't need a Q camera with a 35/50/75/whatever lens

[Simone_DF]

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Ah, the typical Leica user behaviour at their best: "I forbid you to have [X] or even ask for [X], even if I'll never use it and it won't change anything for me. Why? Because fuck you, that's why".

[Simone_DF]

12 hours ago, budjames said:

Call me old, but how about an M with whatever lens you want to use?

No integrated EVF, no IBIS, no leaf shutter, no autofocus, no macro mode, no weather sealing, no video, prone to calibration issues, overpriced, shall I continue?

[NZDavid]

8 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

No integrated EVF, no IBIS, no leaf shutter, no autofocus, no macro mode, no weather sealing, no video, prone to calibration issues, overpriced, shall I continue?

Strangely, M photographers don’t complain about any of those things; well, except maybe price. They are aware of and happy with what others may regard as limitations because it has other virtues. Q owners seem to be constantly debating its specs. I’m tempted by one as an M back up but not sure.

[robb]

It’s not complaining:

 

Like M cameras for what they can do…

Like Q cameras for what they can do…

Like SL cameras for what they can do…

Each does “something” or a “set of things” better than the other two.  But I see no real issue in improving each in their respective categories.  I can use any of these three, anytime, picking the best tool for the right job.  I have no desire to only have one tool.  But I like more options in each category.  The Q is the only one listed here that only has one option…

Robb

[Farrell Gallery]

3 hours ago, robb said:

It’s not complaining:

 

Like M cameras for what they can do…

Like Q cameras for what they can do…

Like SL cameras for what they can do…

Each does “something” or a “set of things” better than the other two.  But I see no real issue in improving each in their respective categories.  I can use any of these three, anytime, picking the best tool for the right job.  I have no desire to only have one tool.  But I like more options in each category.  The Q is the only one listed here that only has one option…

Robb

The remarkable thing about the Q2 is it's built for fun and simplicity...and can still work as well as play. I'd do anything with mine, except headshots. It's almost like, damnit....can't use the Q2 for this headshot conference, haha. 

[LocalHero1953]

12 hours ago, NZDavid said:

Strangely, M photographers don’t complain about any of those things; well, except maybe price. They are aware of and happy with what others may regard as limitations because it has other virtues. Q owners seem to be constantly debating its specs. I’m tempted by one as an M back up but not sure.

You should read the 'M12' thread: plenty of demand there for IBIS, weather sealing and integrated EVF!

I hope the M remains as the don't-change-anything-because-it's-a-M product line, and so allows the Q and SL lines to evolve freely in line with photographic practice and technology.

[bobtodrick]

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I just don’t get this.Leica saw a need/market…a fairly compact camera for travel, street, personal photography and went with.
It’s proven to be one of their best selling cameras, and definitely not because it is inexpensive. 
Maybe (horrors) they knew what they were doing  😂

There are a ton of other cameras out there, including Leica’s that do what you  want…buy them.

You don’t see Honda Civic owners saying they should bring out a Civic that seats eight, is as fast as a Ferrari and will go through a foot of mud.

Well, if they were a Leica owner they might 😂

[Simone_DF]

6 hours ago, bobtodrick said:

You don’t see Honda Civic owners saying they should bring out a Civic that seats eight, is as fast as a Ferrari and will go through a foot of mud.

Except Honda has a 8 seater. Actually it has two of them, the Odyssey and the CR-V, with one of them being a SUV, so yes, it will go fast and through mud no problem.

Can I get my Q3 with a 50mm while you enjoy your Q3 with 28mm now? Or is Leica releasing an additional 50mm model somehow preventing you from enjoying the 28mm version?

[bobtodrick]

5 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

Except Honda has a 8 seater. Actually it has two of them, the Odyssey and the CR-V, with one of them being a SUV, so yes, it will go fast and through mud no problem.

Can I get my Q3 with a 50mm while you enjoy your Q3 with 28mm now? Or is Leica releasing an additional 50mm model somehow preventing you from enjoying the 28mm version?

It’s called am M.

[bobtodrick]

11 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

Except Honda has a 8 seater. Actually it has two of them, the Odyssey and the CR-V, with one of them being a SUV, so yes, it will go fast and through mud no problem.

Can I get my Q3 with a 50mm while you enjoy your Q3 with 28mm now? Or is Leica releasing an additional 50mm model somehow preventing you from enjoying the 28mm version?

Just as the Honda you are talking about is called a CVR (not Civic)… the Leica in question is called an M.

[Farrell Gallery]

7 hours ago, bobtodrick said:

I just don’t get this.Leica saw a need/market…a fairly compact camera for travel, street, personal photography and went with.
It’s proven to be one of their best selling cameras, and definitely not because it is inexpensive. 
Maybe (horrors) they knew what they were doing  😂

There are a ton of other cameras out there, including Leica’s that do what you  want…buy them.

You don’t see Honda Civic owners saying they should bring out a Civic that seats eight, is as fast as a Ferrari and will go through a foot of mud.

Well, if they were a Leica owner they might 😂

Camera owners as a whole are often like this. I see people speculating the next Fuji gear too, haha. 

[Simone_DF]

9 hours ago, bobtodrick said:

It’s called am M.

The M is a completely different beast.

I'm still waiting to hear how Leica releasing an additional 50mm model somehow preventing you from enjoying the 28mm version?

Edited November 28, 2022 by Simone_DF

[LocalHero1953]

11 hours ago, bobtodrick said:

It’s called am M.

Please explain, for our benefit, how you autofocus with a M? How do you keep the rain out of it? How can you shoot your M11 at a shutter speed faster than 1/2f (at best)?

FTAOD these are rhetorical questions.

[matted]

17 hours ago, bobtodrick said:

It’s called am M.

If an M with a 50 will do, then I guess we need no Q line at all as there are 28mm lenses available for the M. 

[Le Chef]

5 minutes ago, matted said:

If an M with a 50 will do, then I guess we need no Q line at all as there are 28mm lenses available for the M. 

Correct. If you don't want or need autofocus then this is probably the best option.

If you want autofocus and multiple autofocus lenses then you could go SL2/S or pre-owned CL.

But if you don't need multiple lens options and just want autofocus then the Q2 is the obvious choice.

[Farrell Gallery]

1 hour ago, Le Chef said:

Correct. If you don't want or need autofocus then this is probably the best option.

If you want autofocus and multiple autofocus lenses then you could go SL2/S or pre-owned CL.

But if you don't need multiple lens options and just want autofocus then the Q2 is the obvious choice.

I’m grateful for my Q2….nothing really needs to change, 😀

[Simone_DF]

15 hours ago, Le Chef said:

If you want autofocus and multiple autofocus lenses then you could go SL2/S or pre-owned CL.

The SL2 has a size and weight issue

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[Phil75]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Simone_DF:

The SL2 has a size and weight issue

Leica has a SL lens "platform" concept (there was an interesting interview with Mr. Karbe for Leica Australia some time ago). Cutting complexity costs result obviously in some package tradeoffs. 

Customers also will have to make compromises, as some wish a "small SL body" with interchangeable Q size lenses; well, certainly there is no budget for another lens line, in contrary, as the CL/TL was just discontinued. And as long as the Q sells like hot cakes there is not much need to develop another version with different FL as this would partially cannibalise volumes. 

Personally I'd prefer it with a "true" 28 mm FL or even a 35 mm. 

Or a small SL body + M lenses (instead a veritable EVF M).

[Le Chef]

I have no information but I wonder whether the SL line is heading to the farm, along with all the other retired models.

It lacks cutting edge performance for the price compared to Canon, Nikon and Sony. 

The equipment is big and heavy which seems to run counter to the Leica philosophy. If you make the bodies lighter and more compact then the lenses are unbalanced. Leica probably can’t afford to do both, hence the L2 agreement.

Leica keeps offering discounts on the SL which is never a good sign for the brand health. How long do you keep pushing water uphill?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica Q

[Simone_DF]

9 hours ago, Phil75 said:

Leica has a SL lens "platform" concept (there was an interesting interview with Mr. Karbe for Leica Australia some time ago). Cutting complexity costs result obviously in some package tradeoffs. 

Customers also will have to make compromises, as some wish a "small SL body" with interchangeable Q size lenses; well, certainly there is no budget for another lens line, in contrary, as the CL/TL was just discontinued. And as long as the Q sells like hot cakes there is not much need to develop another version with different FL as this would partially cannibalise volumes. 

Personally I'd prefer it with a "true" 28 mm FL or even a 35 mm. 

Or a small SL body + M lenses (instead a veritable EVF M).

Again with the "cannibalization". People not interested in a 28mm won't buy a standard Q, the same way people that don't want to lug around 2kgs won't buy a SL+lens combo. 

Ricoh is quite successful with the GRIII (28mm) and GRIIIx (40mm), we don't hear much about the GRIIIx cannibalizing the 28mm version. On the contrary, they grew in popularity since the 40mm version was released. There's more than enough differentiation between the two focal lenghts. So much that we also see many people on the forum that have multiple cameras, the Q for 28mm and Sony/Canon/Nikon for 50mm and above. Rather than have these people buy a Canon, Leica should aim to have these people buy a Leica instead, not thinking about fantasies like "cannibalization", because people buy other brands anyway.

And, finally, customers don't have to make compromises. Companies have to make compromises, not customers. There's a whole market out there filled with excellent products, I won't compromise on anything, definitely not at Leica prices. It's up to Leica to offer something I'm willing to buy, not me "compromising" on a 6K camera.