M10 to M10-R Upgrade Questions

[Adam Bonn]

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10 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

in raw DNG it is ALWAYS ON

Even when I have it turned off in the menu?

[Jeff S]

I never use it in-camera… set to off… but can be applied in PP as needed.

Jeff

[Adam Bonn]

12 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

I never use it in-camera… set to off… but can be applied in PP as needed.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff, so how is that different to the standard auto/level/upright/keystone tool in ACR/LR?

[84bravo]

8 minutes ago, Adam Bonn said:

Thanks Jeff, so how is that different to the standard auto/level/upright/keystone tool in ACR/LR?

In my experience there is no difference other than workflow.

[Jeff S]

46 minutes ago, Adam Bonn said:

Thanks Jeff, so how is that different to the standard auto/level/upright/keystone tool in ACR/LR?

Never compared, but never needed more than that.  Long way from my view camera days.

Jeff

[M Street Photographer]

I also tried the perspective correction. Well it doesn't work badly. But when I'm taking pictures, the Visoflex makes me very uneasy. Any camera movement will, correctly, also cause the frame to move.
When I walk with the camera on Street, the frame movement in the Visoflex is too restless, making it difficult for me to concentrate on the moment.
I disabled the feature.

[MikeMyers]

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When I posted this thread, I was remembering an email I received a long time ago, that I thought would allow me to upgrade my M10 into either an M10-P or an M10-R, sending my camera to Leica (somewhere) where the would replace the sensor and the other components.  I recently couldn't find the email, which is why I was asking here, but maybe I'm wrong about what would be done to my M10.  I was concerned with how long it would take, and also with the cost, and every time I've thought about it before, I decided not to do an upgrade (which at the time, I thought was available if I could afford it).

From my current thoughts, none of this is applicable.  From what I read so far, maybe my impression was wrong, but even if I had it right, I would be more likely to find a way to purchase a new camera than do the upgrade.  I like the improved shutter sound, but not enough to spend a lot of $$.  Ditto for the new sensor.  I realize others may prefer the extra megapixels, but for me, 24 megapixels is plenty.

So, no more need to reply to my original question.  

[Adam Bonn]

@Al Brown @Jeff S @M Street Photographer

Thanks guys, I guess I’ll try it and see… except that the need to use it with live view means I won’t be using it much come what may!

@MikeMyers

The M10 upgrade thing was to turn an M10 into an M10P, never an M10R.

 

[M Street Photographer]

vor 20 Minuten schrieb Adam Bonn:

The M10 upgrade thing was to turn an M10 into an M10P, never an M10R.

I only tested it because I had to have the Visoflex on it to focus an adapted lens.
When I focus with the rangefinder it doesn't matter, it wouldn't bother me then because I don't see it.
But it remains either way, disabled.

There would be another reason for the life view if I want to select spot or multi exposure metering, that's only possible with the M10 R if the life view is activated.

[duoenboge]

The M10-R is a completely different camera than the M10-P as far as the sensor is concerned. She is classes better than the M10. And with about 40 MP, the M10-R hits the sweet spot of the digital Ms. You don't have to put up with the 60 MP of the M11. and forget the bad M10 (or the M10-P). 

[MikeMyers]

3 hours ago, duoenboge said:

She is classes better than the M10. And with about 40 MP, the M10-R hits the sweet spot of the digital Ms. You don't have to put up with the 60 MP of the M11. and forget the bad M10 (or the M10-P

I can't agree, from my point of view.  The sweet spot might be 40 today, but a couple of years ago it might have been 15, and two years from now it might be 150.  Technology is jumping ahead so fast, and there's no reason to think it won't continue on, forever.

Regarding "the bad M10 and M10-P", I don't understand why you think they are "bad".  They work just as well now, as they did when they were introduced, when so many people loved them.  

What do you mean by being "classes" better?  They are older or newer, but I haven't seen any need to change from my M10 to one of the newer models, and I suspect I am happier with my M10 right now than I would be with an M11.

My thoughts are that the camera doesn't matter.

https://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/notcamera.htm

It's the photographer who creates a better or worse photo, not the camera.

[M Street Photographer]

It is a very old adage that the photographer takes the pictures and not the camera.
However, the marketing has managed that many believe that the new camera is so motivating that the photos are better, a mistake.
Certain companies know how to create hype and many succumb to it.
How would everyone be photographically much further if we put our money more into our development than into hardware. Very few are able to do both.
Art comes from skill, not hardware.

[Demigorgan]

On 11/13/2022 at 9:41 AM, M Street Photographer said:

It is a very old adage that the photographer takes the pictures and not the camera.
However, the marketing has managed that many believe that the new camera is so motivating that the photos are better, a mistake.
Certain companies know how to create hype and many succumb to it.
How would everyone be photographically much further if we put our money more into our development than into hardware. Very few are able to do both.
Art comes from skill, not hardware.

Here we are in a Leica forum. Look at your profile picture. Very few spend as much as we do on cameras and lenses. Most people think we are crazy for doing it.

Everything you said in this post anyone could say about you and your Leica gear. 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Demigorgan

[Demigorgan]

On 11/13/2022 at 9:16 AM, MikeMyers said:

My thoughts are that the camera doesn't matter

I agree with everything except this. I half agree and half disagree. 

I agree that if I want to take a good photo, you can really do that with any camera. Bresson’s more famous photo outside the train station in Paris is a mess. Nothing is in focus. It’s blurry. But everything is just perfectly placed. It’s an iconic picture. In that sense you could take a great photo with a Go-Pro. 

on the other hand, even he was very particular about his gear. Every single photographer I admire is very particular about the cameras and lenses they use. Just like great painters are particular about the brushes and paints and canvases they use. 
 

[M Street Photographer]

vor 15 Minuten schrieb Demigorgan:

Here we are in a Leica forum. Look at your profile picture. Very few spend as much as we do on cameras and lenses. Most people think we are crazy for doing it.

Everything you said in this post anyone could say about you and your Leica gear. 

If you're having a bad day, please don't attack me personally.We treat each other with respect.
My answer referred to #37 and Ken Rockwell.
I don't blame anyone, everyone, like me, can buy whatever they want.
But the fact remains: If you buy good / expensive pots, you can't cook well. It is important that you have fun with it.

[Demigorgan]

19 minutes ago, M Street Photographer said:

But the fact remains: If you buy good / expensive pots, you can't cook well.

“Everything you said can be said about you and your gear”

How is that attacking you? 😅

I’m giving back to you what you said about everyone else. 

and now you’ve said something worse. So you have a $10,000 Leica. By your logic does that mean you can’t take pictures? 

Im not saying that. YOU said it. 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Demigorgan

[M Street Photographer]

@Demigorgan,

First, the gear isn't worth $10,000. But I can take pictures with it, but it doesn't make me a good photographer with it. I'll leave it up to the viewer how good or bad I am, although I've only shown test photos with the M at the moment, without any photographic or artistic claim.
Perhaps there is a misunderstanding: quality equipment alone does not make anyone a good photographer/cook/driver, etc. It depends on skill level.
And I didn't address anyone directly with it, I meant it in general and not related to Leica alone, but in general.
By the way, I know some Sony photographers whose equipment costs are not inferior to those of Leica or Hasselblad. But even these are not good photographers per se.
I hope I've made myself clear and cleared up a misunderstanding.

[Adam Bonn]

Well what makes a good photo can be subjective... bit like what makes a good song... and like music some photos that are as revered as early Beatles songs would do as poorly as a Beatles song if it was presented unheard of in today's contemporary music scene (whatever that might be), so perhaps the metric should be getting the shot in which case seeing as there's cameras that track movement, only fire when they detect a smile, automatically focus on the eye with a shallow DOF lens (even all of those things at once) and the Leica M does none of these things, one could argue that the M is a poor choice for being a technically good photograph maker... much like how most folks can drive faster around a wet race track with the traction control and ABS on rather than off, and in this scenario the lap time is king.. much like getting the shot is (even for hobbyist drivers and photographers)

The counter argument would be emotive I think.... I don't need no stinking computer taking my shots for me I love that the M is basically a manual camera and I love the craft of using it (and I do personally feel that way...) 

This is a gear forum, sure we can sometimes fall into talk about the craft but posts on gear get all of the attention really.

If it was a craft forum then it wouldn't be about one particular brand

[Demigorgan]

6 hours ago, M Street Photographer said:

@Demigorgan,

First, the gear isn't worth $10,000. But I can take pictures with it, but it doesn't make me a good photographer with it. I'll leave it up to the viewer how good or bad I am, although I've only shown test photos with the M at the moment, without any photographic or artistic claim.
Perhaps there is a misunderstanding: quality equipment alone does not make anyone a good photographer/cook/driver, etc. It depends on skill level.
And I didn't address anyone directly with it, I meant it in general and not related to Leica alone, but in general.
By the way, I know some Sony photographers whose equipment costs are not inferior to those of Leica or Hasselblad. But even these are not good photographers per se.
I hope I've made myself clear and cleared up a misunderstanding.

Well  I don’t know any Sony (body only) that costs $9,000. Or a little sony 50f2 prime that costs $9,000. What Sony user ever spent near $20,000 on a Sony and a little 50f2?

Very few spend as much on camera gear as we do. Yes you have to go to hasselblad for that honor  

Yes. You with a custom Strat it’s just noise. If I give it to John Meyer is another thing. 

This is obvious. but John Meyer isn’t playing $200 guitars. 

So simply saying “the gear doesn’t matter” isn’t true either. It does matter very much. Some of these guys work with the guitar manufacturers just to get the guitar exactly the way they want it. 

Actually gear matters a lot. 

Yes that a Ferrari in my hands and a Ferrari in a formula 1 champion’s hands is a different thing. We all know that I think. 

I don’t know why people always feel the need to say “cameras don’t take pictures. People do”. Like this is some sort of revelation nobody had ever heard before. 

My point is this is a Leica forum. We all love Leica gear and spend more than most to get it. so I don’t understand these posts on this forum. 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Demigorgan

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Savvygrip]

A lot of emotions shared in this thread! Photography holds a passionate place in our hearts-as cheesy as this statement may be, it is true! 

Is there a world where we have arrived in the digital whelm at the point of diminishing returns?

Have any of you pondered this thought:  wouldn't it be cool if Leica made the M platform upgradable(for lack of a better term). A camera where you could change sensors. And on this note, sensors, (leica-specific sensors) are treated more like their M-lens counterparts-with each having it's own interesting and beautiful attributes technically and artistically? 

A "GREEN"( this word kinda makes me wince) digital camera(non-throw away-that last for ever and ever- and the marketing steers us towards identifying the prowess of each individual sensor as if it were like the difference between Van Gogh or a Rembrandt. 

Then plucking down 6 to 9k on a camera body might not seem so stressful, fearful, and riddled with all the question's and idea's posted in these endless threads with people sharing, arguing, getting more confused and restless.

could the M10-p be the last camera I need to buy? or is there a future M that has it all and even the things we in 2023 couldn't even imagine until 2030 and on- including black paint? Or, maybe, the ancient sensor that was put into the M10-p becomes a highly sought after dinosaur that is more valued than the newest generations sensors because there was a mineral that used in the manufacturing of this sensor that is no longer available, thus this camera body is now selling for $15k on the black market.  

can I get a witness? and someone wake me up from this dream?