I cancelled my M6 2022 order

[ianman]

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17 hours ago, mshchem said:

I use an incident meter for almost everything.

So do I but I’ve heard there are better ways for mixing soup.

[Huss]

The 'purity' in the process is just for the user's personal experience.  If that is what makes them happy, great.  The end result does not care, and anyone viewing the image would not care either.

[williamj]

3 hours ago, Huss said:

The 'purity' in the process is just for the user's personal experience.  If that is what makes them happy, great.  The end result does not care, and anyone viewing the image would not care either.

I for one am looking forward to your report on your new M6, its look and feel and performance. It may be years before I see one in the flesh. 

[Mikep996]

"Most people have no idea what good photography is; rather, what looks good to their eyes "

I don't really agree with that.  I'd say, what looks good to the eye is the only thing that matters in the finished photo.  How it got to BE a finished photo is, of course in the "eye" of the shooter/processor but as noted, in viewing the finished result nobody else cares about how many hours were (or were not) spent in producing it. 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Mikep996

[Huss]

8 hours ago, Mikep996 said:

"Most people have no idea what good photography is; rather, what looks good to their eyes "

I don't really agree with that.  I'd say, what looks good to the eye is the only thing that matters in the finished photo.  How it got to BE a finished photo is, of course in the "eye" of the shooter/processor but as noted, in viewing the finished result nobody else cares about how many hours were (or were not) spent in producing it. 

 

 

I agree with Mike.  I know a lot of people obsessed by 'good photography' when all that means is they got the technical stuff right.  But the pics are the sharpest, best exposed images of absolute boring nothingness.    

[rossawilson1]

On 11/12/2022 at 10:45 AM, willeica said:

Not correct. Red Dot in London is also independent. To their credit, Leica Manchester provided a Leica on Loan facility to attendees, many from the US, at the recent Leica Society International (formerly  LHSA) conference in Dublin. The cameras were sourced from Leica Akademie Austria and delivered to Dublin which is also in the EU. The Manchester guys came to Dublin, on a boat, to administer the camera loans. Brexit was the cause of all of those fancy manoeuvres. Some of the comments above on the price of the new M6 need to be viewed in the light of various tax regimes, but I am sure that most here know that. 

I don't need the 'new' M6 as I have had an 'old' one for about 11 years and it is a great camera. Stefan Daniel allowed me to use his copy of the 'new' M6 in Dublin and it too felt just right.

I find the rush to go on waiting lists for an almost 40 year old camera design intriguing. There are a lot of copies of the 'old' M6 available everywhere. 

William 

 

I don't think you're catching the distinction.

An Independent camera shop and an independent official Leica Store are not the same thing.

Leica Manchester is an actual Leica store in every way, layout, furniture, everything, it is in every sense an official Leica store but just owned independent of Leica.

Red Dot is a boutique that specialises in Leica but sells other brands. Doesn't look like a Leica store, doesn't get to call itself a Leica Store.

It's the difference between a McDonalds and a burger bar that's allowed to sell Big Macs.

This is why Leica list Manchester as an official store, they make no differentiation between their Leica owned stores and Manchester. For Red Dot you have to select "boutique".

Cheers

 

 

Go to Leica's website and look for Leica London stores

[phototrope]

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On 11/10/2022 at 10:21 PM, Huss said:

 

This is not a ding on Leica Manchester  - they were delightful to work with.  It's just that Leica's business practice is basically to sell this camera directly before distributing to their dealers.  I am sure they do this with all their products.

 

I don't know. I bought a 35mm summilux V2 the day it was announced from Leica Manchester.  However, the Leica dealership in London didn't have them in stock on release day, nor till a few weeks later. So perhaps it's not all as cut and dry as you imagine.

[Huss]

4 hours ago, phototrope said:

I don't know. I bought a 35mm summilux V2 the day it was announced from Leica Manchester.  However, the Leica dealership in London didn't have them in stock on release day, nor till a few weeks later. So perhaps it's not all as cut and dry as you imagine.

Are the aperture blades ok on your lens?  There have been a bunch where when you stop down they become all tweaked and the shape of the aperture is extremely irregular.

"Apparently" Leica has halted production to figure out what is going wrong.

You can clearly see the issue on this lens, sold as new

https://www.ebay.com/itm/125530188989?mkcid=16

[oldwino]

1 hour ago, Huss said:

Are the aperture blades ok on your lens?  There have been a bunch where when you stop down they become all tweaked and the shape of the aperture is extremely irregular.

"Apparently" Leica has halted production to figure out what is going wrong.

You can clearly see the issue on this lens, sold as new

https://www.ebay.com/itm/125530188989?mkcid=16

There’s some pretty complex engineering going on there…very special bokeh.

[andrew01]

On 11/14/2022 at 10:14 AM, williamj said:

I completely agree. When I'm off to shoot wildlife I'm taking a digital camera capable of 5 frames per second with autofocus and matrix metering and no one, in seeing the pictures, says 'William, did you manually focus that lens?' they're only interested in what it looks like and whether the photograph opens their eyes

5fps is quite low tech for digital cameras now.  The latest ones do 30 fps.  Reading some of the threads from wildlife shooters, people are talking of literally shooting thousands of shots in an outing and then having to going through those on a computer to find the keepers.  I suppose there are good odds that some of the photos will be good, but it doesn’t sound like any fun at all to me!

[jukka]

On 11/13/2022 at 8:38 PM, lmans said:

Next time you go out shooting, go without the battery. Leave it at home..... Feel what it is like to not even have 'as an option' or a backup, the possibility other than your own judgement. It is a sort of freedom that comes when you have no choice of a Choice. 

I kind of hear you, but I personally enjoy the process of observing events around me and trying to make the interesting shot out of them. What I find to be less fascinating is trying to guess the correct shutter speed, which does not have any artistic influence on the final image. 

In fact, the optical viewfinder, the rangefinder, manual focus, and manual aperture, are just the right amount of freedom/precision that I need from my lens/body.

Especially the optical viewfinder in the M provides a sufficient connection to “reality” so that I can judge the light and other factors the way I want to. Electronic viewfinders, and even SLRs, get in the way of that process, I feel. 

Other than that, I expect the camera to stay out of my way, and the M7 does this perfectly. 

[williamj]

10 hours ago, andrew01 said:

5fps is quite low tech for digital cameras now.  The latest ones do 30 fps.  Reading some of the threads from wildlife shooters, people are talking of literally shooting thousands of shots in an outing and then having to going through those on a computer to find the keepers.  I suppose there are good odds that some of the photos will be good, but it doesn’t sound like any fun at all to me!

True, 5 fps is quite modest. Actually, I don't shoot wildlife that often, usually I'm only documenting what animals are out there rather than looking for anything aesthetic, so 5 fps is more than enough. I only meant to say that that's an fps that you cannot achieve by manually winding on a film camera even if you're using a Leicavit.

I don't envy professional wildlife photographers going through thousands of frames obtained at 30 fps to find a handful of keepers. I was listening to one of them the other day talking about the film days when he said they took 300 rolls of slide film for a week long trip to photograph birds. For sure digital has been a boon in that situation.

[69xchange]

18 hours ago, Huss said:

Are the aperture blades ok on your lens?  There have been a bunch where when you stop down they become all tweaked and the shape of the aperture is extremely irregular.

"Apparently" Leica has halted production to figure out what is going wrong.

You can clearly see the issue on this lens, sold as new

https://www.ebay.com/itm/125530188989?mkcid=16

Wow even with that factory defect, someone bought it!

[Huss]

5 hours ago, 69xchange said:

Wow even with that factory defect, someone bought it!

Which begs the question... what happened to that QA check they do when they include that cute signed inspected card?  I honestly think they don't do one.  Because how on earth could that be missed?

[lmans]

6 hours ago, 69xchange said:

Wow even with that factory defect, someone bought it!

The buyer has to be aware.....I noticed this comes from Hong Kong and much like in NYC or other locales, you have these online camera stores that perhaps look like the real deal. It was also a few hundred dollars cheaper than if you would have bought it at a Leica Store or B and H etc.....     Why? ...the consumer simply has to be aware. it is listed as brand new, so if really brand new, why a cheaper price. Looks like a 'problem' passed along from one store to another. 

If I am going to buy something used, and especially at this much $, I will look to purchase from a dealer I know is a true dealer..... There are tons of them and some person with an online Ebay store from Hong Kong, most likely wouldn't make my list. jim

[phototrope]

On 11/16/2022 at 6:12 PM, Huss said:

Are the aperture blades ok on your lens?  There have been a bunch where when you stop down they become all tweaked and the shape of the aperture is extremely irregular.

"Apparently" Leica has halted production to figure out what is going wrong.

You can clearly see the issue on this lens, sold as new

https://www.ebay.com/itm/125530188989?mkcid=16

Aperture blades are perfect. The lens takes beautiful pictures.

[tightsqueez]

My dealer contacted me yesterday that they had a fresh copy of the new 35 Lux for me. The new lenses do not have the aperture blade issue. 
 

I declined to purchase but it’s good to see they are shipping again. 

[Adam Bonn]

On 11/17/2022 at 6:46 PM, Huss said:

Which begs the question... what happened to that QA check they do when they include that cute signed inspected card?  I honestly think they don't do one.  Because how on earth could that be missed?

My hunch would be that the final QA check (sic) is that the guy or gal merely inspects documentation that's provided internally from the previous stages of assembly.

ie Nothing's being physically checked except that there's a list of things that all have a tick next to them.

Basically the QA is that if a subassembly has been cleared to go to the next stage in the assembly process then it must be ok.

This process probably starts with parts that are outsourced - say circuit boards - that arrive for inclusion into camera builds already certified as working by the supplier. Then on top of this we have what sort of quality checks are performed? For example I've seen it alleged that Rolex tests every watch they build for the stated water resistance, but other companies would simply randomly pull say 1 per 10 or 1 per 100 from the production run and water proof test that, I mean if one passes they probably all do right?!!!!