Godox XProL II TTL Wireless Flash Trigger for Leica

[Sohail]

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I'm a novice with flash but I'm thinking of buying the new Godox XProL II TTL Wireless Flash Trigger for Leica:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1712077-REG/godox_xproii_l_leica.html

Pricing aside, what can this Godox system do that the Leica SF60 + SFC1 cannot? And vice-versa.

TIA
Sohail

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[Photoworks]

simply put the godox is capable to trigger Godox lights like ad600-100 and V1 and 860III, and other godox triggers.

Leica only works with Leica !

[FrankX]

HSS in manual mode, for example. And you have way more power and shorter recycle times with most of the flashes mentioned by Photoworks.

[sillbeers15]

In the photography gear world, almost always true is the costlier the gear, the quality & performance is better. Unfortunately my experience as a user in camera flashes & strobes do not add up as such logic!

Leica SF-C1 is a wireless remote trigger for Leica SF60 flash that is just a rebadged Nissin i60A speedlites in 40Ws - 60Ws range output dedicated for Leica cameras. 

Godox XPro-II L is a wireless remote trigger for a range of Godox speedlites & strobes from 40Ws - 1200Ws including manual mode control in HSS that Nissin could not offer Leica cameras.

If you aim is to add lighting to your outdoor portraiture using light modifiers attached in OCF position & function as a key light, SF60 is just not quite sufficient especially so with shutter speeds exceeding 1/250s in HSS mode.

However low power bare head speedlites can do a good job of fill-in light & backlight/rimlight function fired in close distances to the subject.

Having used only available 3rd party manual flash/strobe using Pocket Wizard triggers & receivers to get outdoor OCF to work since a decade ago, I happily jumped on the SF-C1 with two units of SF60 and a 165Ws Nissin MG10 (that is controllable by SF-C1) the moment it was made available. I happily accepted it although it has not meet my needs due to the power output of the flash/strobe were barely sufficient for most outdoor lighting purposes. 

Now with the option of cheap & good Godox range of lights through XPro-II L, it is a no brainer that I just picked up a AD300 with two AD-100s as my highly mobile outdoor lighting kit to replace my SF-C1 + lights.

Btw, all Nissin products are made in China including Leica SF-C1 & SF60s,.....no difference from buying Godox.

Profoto B10 & A2s are tempting proposition to me when the Leica controller becomes available sometime this month. With so much and so fast evolving in flash, strobe & LED continuous lighting over the past few years, I am learning to hold my horses on paying more on fast changing technology.

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by sillbeers15

[Sohail]

2 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

In the photography gear world, almost always true is the costlier the gear, the quality & performance is better. Unfortunately my experience as a user in camera flashes & strobes do not add up as such logic!

Leica SF-C1 is a wireless remote trigger for Leica SF60 flash that is just a rebadged Nissin i60A speedlites in 40Ws - 60Ws range output dedicated for Leica cameras. 

Godox XPro-II L is a wireless remote trigger for a range of Godox speedlites & strobes from 40Ws - 1200Ws including manual mode control in HSS that Nissin could not offer Leica cameras.

If you aim is to add lighting to your outdoor portraiture using light modifiers attached in OCF position & function as a key light, SF60 is just not quite sufficient especially so with shutter speeds exceeding 1/250s in HSS mode.

However low power bare head speedlites can do a good job of fill-in light & backlight/rimlight function fired in close distances to the subject.

Having used only available 3rd party manual flash/strobe using Pocket Wizard triggers & receivers to get outdoor OCF to work since a decade ago, I happily jumped on the SF-C1 with two units of SF60 and a 165Ws Nissin MG10 (that is controllable by SF-C1) the moment it was made available. I happily accepted it although it has not meet my needs due to the power output of the flash/strobe were barely sufficient for most outdoor lighting purposes. 

Now with the option of cheap & good Godox range of lights through XPro-II L, it is a no brainer that I just picked up a AD300 with two AD-100s as my highly mobile outdoor lighting kit to replace my SF-C1 + lights.

Btw, all Nissin products are made in China including Leica SF-C1 & SF60s,.....no difference from buying Godox.

Profoto B10 & A2s are tempting proposition to me when the Leica controller becomes available sometime this month. With so much and so fast evolving in flash, strobe & LED continuous lighting over the past few years, I am learning to hold my horses on paying more on fast changing technology.

 

 

 

Thank you so much for this extremely helpful review of the SFC1 and SF60. 

I'm literally a novice at flash and am just beginning to experience the shortcomings that you too have observed. I was not sure initially if they were flash shortcomings or more specific to the SFC1 and SF60. For OCF an outdoor portraiture, the SF60 doesn't seem to be strong enough for my needs. I can light up my subject but the light spread is very limited -- hence only viable, as you too note, at close distance or as a fill light.

I assumed the a guide number of 60 was good enough. Evidently not. Is the AD200 more powerful? How much more so?

Another question: Does the AD200 work with the Godox XPro-II L? 

Cheers,
Sohail

[sillbeers15]

2 hours ago, Sohail said:

Thank you so much for this extremely helpful review of the SFC1 and SF60. 

I'm literally a novice at flash and am just beginning to experience the shortcomings that you too have observed. I was not sure initially if they were flash shortcomings or more specific to the SFC1 and SF60. For OCF an outdoor portraiture, the SF60 doesn't seem to be strong enough for my needs. I can light up my subject but the light spread is very limited -- hence only viable, as you too note, at close distance or as a fill light.

I assumed the a guide number of 60 was good enough. Evidently not. Is the AD200 more powerful? How much more so?

Another question: Does the AD200 work with the Godox XPro-II L? 

Cheers,
Sohail

The Godox AD200 & AD200Pro are very popular outdoor & indoor compact strobe with wedding & amateur photographers for years before the V1, AD300Pro and AD100Pro became available. I believe it’s popularity speaks about it’s usefulness & value.

I never took any Chinese made photography products seriously and Godox is one exception after seeing it’s product range & quality ever since the AD200 debut. There is now a round head & ring flash option based on the AD200Pro…pretty innovative I must say.

I am glad that you have the correct observation and you are asking the right questions. 
I am only amateur photographer so I obviously have limited experience under my belt. However there are hips of outdoor portrait photography videos on YouTube for us to watch. The useful tips are found in the details on how the flash/strobes are employed ( distance to subject, with or w/o light modifier & type), the manual power settings employed against the type and output of flash/strobe, ND filter vs HSS usage is a big factor to determine the flash/strobe power output required as key light.

So my short answer to your question on the power output required in the following 4 scenarios are:

1 Minimum 600Ws without modifier as key light outdoors to light subject full length figure at 8 ft. or further against the sun, fast lens fully open aperture & fast shutter speed of 1/8000 required.

2 200Ws with light modifier as key light outdoors  to light subject full length figure at 6 ft. or less with subject under shade, fast lens fully open aperture & shutter speed within sync with use of ND filter.

3 Speedlight without light modifier as fill light or backlight to light subject full length figure at 6 ft. or less.

4 Speedlite with light modifier or bounce off walls indoors as key light to light subject half length figure at 83ft. or less.

Yes. XPro-llL works with AD200 & AD200Pro.

Edited November 11, 2022 by sillbeers15
Additional info.

[Photoworks]

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2 hours ago, Sohail said:

Does the AD200 work with the Godox XPro-II L? 

there are and older and newer version, the newer does work.

 

[Photoworks]

5 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

Btw, all Nissin products are made in China including Leica SF-C1 & SF60s,.....no difference from buying Godox.

Nissin was always placed by underpowered, overheating and confusing button combination to use AIR.

And top of it for service everything need to go to Japan, a real drawback for overprice flash. The door lock nobs keep breaking and the battery would fly out ever so often.

Godox is no better in repair, and the support email are translated to English in google and sometime don't make any sense. But their products are good and affordable enough to replace .

[sillbeers15]

2 hours ago, Photoworks said:

Nissin was always placed by underpowered, overheating and confusing button combination to use AIR.

And top of it for service everything need to go to Japan, a real drawback for overprice flash. The door lock nobs keep breaking and the battery would fly out ever so often.

Godox is no better in repair, and the support email are translated to English in google and sometime don't make any sense. But their products are good and affordable enough to replace .

I agree with your comments.

I’ve seen my share of changes over the past decade on flashes & strobes on portability, range, remote controllability plus LED continuous lights are getting better. I’ve also seen strobes get smash onto the ground by act of God. So my mind set over these OCF becomes somewhat of treating them as tissue towers. Their value are in usage and not for keeps. In that manner Godox products fit the bill.

[sillbeers15]

5 hours ago, Sohail said:

Thank you so much for this extremely helpful review of the SFC1 and SF60. 

I'm literally a novice at flash and am just beginning to experience the shortcomings that you too have observed. I was not sure initially if they were flash shortcomings or more specific to the SFC1 and SF60. For OCF an outdoor portraiture, the SF60 doesn't seem to be strong enough for my needs. I can light up my subject but the light spread is very limited -- hence only viable, as you too note, at close distance or as a fill light.

I assumed the a guide number of 60 was good enough. Evidently not. Is the AD200 more powerful? How much more so?

Another question: Does the AD200 work with the Godox XPro-II L? 

Cheers,
Sohail

Here is a video clip on the use of AD200Pro by a wedding photographer 

 

[Photoworks]

I suppose it is a godox sales video, otherwise I hope the photographer has some experience and doesn't have to try so long to get the fist shot.

[sillbeers15]

I hv no doubts about that. There are tons of such product demo videos by Profoto, Sony and others that can provide learning tips from behind the scene set up for amateurs to try new tricks.

On the same note, Sara Edmunds video offer lighting power settings & camera shutter speed for reference on shots taken.

https://youtu.be/q4bzu4yCQZY
 

Edited November 12, 2022 by sillbeers15
Additional info

[FrankX]

Am 11.11.2022 um 12:32 schrieb Sohail:

Is the AD200 more powerful? How much more so?

Cheers,
Sohail

The AD200 is a 200 Ws flash. The SF60 output should be around 50-60 Ws. Thus, AD200 is roughly 3-4x more powerful. And it is possible to combine two AD200 as a single 400 Ws flash unit with a quite affordable flash head accessory! 

Edited November 13, 2022 by FrankX

[Sohail]

5 hours ago, FrankX said:

The AD200 is a 200 Ws flash. The SF60 output should be around 50-60 Ws. Thus, AD200 is roughly 3-4x more powerful. And it is possible to combine two AD200 as a single 400 Ws flash unit with a quite affordable flash head accessory! 

That's phenomenal! By the way, how do you know that? What spec are you reading?

[sillbeers15]

On 11/14/2022 at 1:28 AM, Sohail said:

That's phenomenal! By the way, how do you know that? What spec are you reading?

There is no standard / calibrated way to measure real flash output regardless of GN or Ws. 
The AD300Pro is 300Ws and the B10 is rated at 250Ws. However independent real test placing light meter at fixed distance comparing both revealed B10 output to be one stop brighter. That attributes to bigger flash tube size/surface area from B10 over AD300Pro. But it does not mean Godox is not a good strobe/flash. More important is the usage value both offer to users.

 

[Photoworks]

49 minutes ago, sillbeers15 said:

There is no standard / calibrated way to measure real flash output regardless of GN or Ws. 
The AD300Pro is 300Ws and the B10 is rated at 250Ws. However independent real test placing light meter at fixed distance comparing both revealed B10 output to be one stop brighter. That attributes to bigger flash tube size/surface area from B10 over AD300Pro. But it does not mean Godox is not a good strobe/flash. More important is the usage value both offer to users.

 

All the strobe I have used over the years I almost never used it a full power, one you go to the max the time to recharge get so much longer and it is a drain to the battery, plus heat will put you flash in cooling more. 

If you need 200WS get 300WS and put is at less power, it will perform better.

Godox produces some comparable flash system to Profoto and Elinchrom... but the design of profoto to have a narrow bulb with cover glass tends to be still harder light in every situation with modifiers. when you put on a soft box the light is just better with a bulb that is not so reset .

Profoto are still good light, I have dropped my moonlight in the pool and used under the rain and it still works.

[BernardC]

2 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

There is no standard / calibrated way to measure real flash output regardless of GN or Ws. 
The AD300Pro is 300Ws and the B10 is rated at 250Ws. However independent real test placing light meter at fixed distance comparing both revealed B10 output to be one stop brighter.

That's been true for a long while. Back when I was in university, a photographer tested every studio flash available through local distributors, and came to the same conclusion. W/S do not correspond to flash meter readings, even when the flash head is inside a large softbox. The relationship is fairly linear in a single brand's lineup (doubling W/S means an extra stop of exposure), but heads from different brands can be several stops apart.

I remember that he had a Lotus1-2-3 spreadsheet to keep track of his testing. It also included price (of course), colour output (mired shift to balance on Kodak EPR), colour shift at different power levels, recycling time, etc.

[sillbeers15]

12 hours ago, Photoworks said:

All the strobe I have used over the years I almost never used it a full power, one you go to the max the time to recharge get so much longer and it is a drain to the battery, plus heat will put you flash in cooling more. 

If you need 200WS get 300WS and put is at less power, it will perform better.

Godox produces some comparable flash system to Profoto and Elinchrom... but the design of profoto to have a narrow bulb with cover glass tends to be still harder light in every situation with modifiers. when you put on a soft box the light is just better with a bulb that is not so reset .

Profoto are still good light, I have dropped my moonlight in the pool and used under the rain and it still works.

You made valid points on rather having an overpower flash/strobe than being caught under power. 
Unfortunately as a hobbyist I do not have either a donkey for logistics nor a voice controlled light stand on my command so mobility is the other opposite factor I needed to balance.

So forgive me for treading on a fine line between having all the firepower of a strobe I desire vs being able to operate freely as an individual. So I tend to get excited when I see nice results from single light + soft box and would always try to understand the limitations of the set up and ambient environment.

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[sillbeers15]

Below is a good example on using a simple, fast to operate small 20” soft box supported by a single 100Ws strobe or speedlight  shooting half figure indoors. I do not think it is possible to shot the same outdoors full figure without at least a 300Ws strobe.

 

[ynp]

5 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

Below is a good example on using a simple, fast to operate small 20” soft box supported by a single 100Ws strobe or speedlight  shooting half figure indoors. I do not think it is possible to shot the same outdoors full figure without at least a 300Ws strobe.

 

I bought the 24” SMDV version of the Flip than I got the 20” Flip beauty dish and now I am waiting for the 28” Flip with the AD300 pro connector. They are so easy to travel with. My two flips fit into my medium size Suitcase under  the clothes and my two as100pro ‘s are also super compact. Love the SMDV flip softboxes. Just enough for this hobbyist.