I'm really confused now!

[dougdarter]

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Hi,

 

I did ask about this a few days ago, but I've been given even more conflicting information.

 

I've just added a 50mm DR Summicron to my collection, for the simple reason that it was at a price too good to miss, and I'm trying to collect a full set:D

 

I was originally not going to buy this lens, because more and more of my photographs are taken with the M8, and I have heard that the DR and M8 are incompatible.

 

I rang Leica UK (technical department) this afternoon, and was told there was no reason not to use it in normal focus, but when I mentioned that it was on their list of incompatible lenses, I was warned off.

 

I then rang several leica dealers, and all said, why not?? Indeed, the owner of one of the UK's most venerable dealers, said that he uses a DR on his M8 without any problems.

 

Odd - isn't it??

 

What I would like to know is - does anybody here use a DR on an M8??

 

I'm guessing that if the lens is mounted in normal range, then there would be no problem, but if mounted or put into short range mode whilst mounted, the focus flange would foul the inside of the body.

 

The lens was, after all, designed for use with the M3, but it is used sucessfully on later M bodies.

 

I do know, that the lens flange can be shortened so that it can't be used in close focus, but surely, if it is used on the M8 in normal focus range, then the length of the flange would be immaterial, because the flange should be the same depth as the normal 50mm inside the body - or am I making a fundamental error??

 

I shall keep the lens (when it arrives) whatever, but it would be nice to be able to use it on the M8 as well as my Barnacks.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Doug

[jaapv]

Just be careful when you try to mount it - it is supposed to be impossible.

[dougdarter]

Just be careful when you try to mount it - it is supposed to be impossible.

 

Jaap - thanks for that. I'm not even going to try unless I'm 100% certain that I'm not going to do any damage!!

 

If I lived near London (I'm 350 miles away), I'd visit the Leica dealer, and ask him to demonstrate that his lens does indeed fit an M8!!

[jaapv]

Jaap - thanks for that. I'm not even going to try unless I'm 100% certain that I'm not going to do any damage!!

 

If I lived near London (I'm 350 miles away), I'd visit the Leica dealer, and ask him to demonstrate that his lens does indeed fit an M8!!

 

 

I say that because I'm the one that found out that the 50/2.8 could be collapsed safely on the M8 - because I was not aware that Leica said it was not possible.... Somehow they still seem to say that - though not in the documentation that comes with the lens:rolleyes:

[carstenw]

My 50 DR can be mounted on the M8, if set to between 1.3m and 3m, IIRC. You can then focus from the near limit of the normal range to 3m, but not to infinity, a great regret of mine. The near range does not work, don't try. The focusing flange of the lens hits something inside the M8 body. You can try gently to do various things, but don't force anything. Someone here did have a DR which worked in the entire normal range on the M8, IIRC.

[Shootist]

To my knowledge most if not all DR 50's have haze on the glass elements. Why bother with one if you don't aready own one for use on the M8. And that in the manual for the M8 it states that IT CAN'T (shouldn't) be used on the M8.

[Guest tummydoc]

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In its un-altered form, the DR will bind on the M8 whilst focussing (or whilst fitting the lens if the helicoid happens to be at a point where binding occurs). One could I suppose have a repair facility sort it to operate in the 1m-infinity range by making modifications to the lens, but given that the close-focus mechanism would still not operate, I ponder at the rationale behind not simply choosing the standard rigid Summicron which is optically identical and will fit to the M8 without any problem.

[Guest tummydoc]

To my knowledge most if not all DR 50's have haze on the glass elements.

 

Indeed? How many of the 55,145 produced and sold have you personally examined, that you feel confident to utter such a proclamation and expect us to accept it as fact?

[Shootist]

Indeed? How many of the 55,145 produced and sold have you personally examined, that you feel confident to utter such a proclamation and expect us to accept it as fact?

 

Personally 3 50 DR lenses and all had haze. after doing some googling I find many articles stating that it would be very rare to find one that doesn't have haze. It has something to do with the glue used to cement some of the elements together.

On some of them you need to shine a light through them at a angle to expose the haze, but it's there. Just harder to see with the naked eye.

If you have one that does not have any haze then you have one that was kept very well.

Good for you.

[dougdarter]

To my knowledge most if not all DR 50's have haze on the glass elements. Why bother with one if you don't aready own one for use on the M8. And that in the manual for the M8 it states that IT CAN'T (shouldn't) be used on the M8.

 

I bother, because I collect as well as use, and it's good to be able to use the old vintage lenses on my M8. I already have 3 Summicrons, and the all offer a different type of IQ. It would be good to try the DR, as it's rumoured to be extra special.

 

I can't for the life of me imagine where you get the idea that 'most, if not all' DR 50's have haze or fogging?? I've seen quite a few which have optics as clear as the day they left the factory, and I expect mine to be the same!! Dust?? a little, but this happens to older lenses. If you justify the statement by saying that you've read it, then your evidence is apocryphal, and non objective, and therefore debatable. Gather your own evidence before making such sweeping statements.

 

I have a suspicion that Leica says not to use the DR - it actually says in the CF range, because they are aware that people may not recognise the hazards of trying to mount the lens and use it in close focus. Using it in normal range might well be possible.

 

Are you aware that all the DR's are actually more than 50mm? I'm told that most are around 52mm, and some 53mm. It may be that this tiny discrepancy is the major decider as to whether the lens can focus at infinity??

[blakley]

I have a suspicion that Leica says not to use the DR - it actually says in the CF range, because they are aware that people may not recognise the hazards of trying to mount the lens and use it in close focus. Using it in normal range might well be possible.

 

Are you aware that all the DR's are actually more than 50mm? I'm told that most are around 52mm, and some 53mm. It may be that this tiny discrepancy is the major decider as to whether the lens can focus at infinity??

 

No. The lens' flange is physically incompatible with the sensor chamber of the M8, as the pictures in this thread illustrate. Without modification, the DR Summicron will not focus throughout most of the normal range because turning the helical causes the flange to bind against the M8's sensor chamber.

[Guest tummydoc]

If you have one that does not have any haze then you have one that was kept very well.

 

Or has been professionally cleaned. Most "haze" can be sorted by someone who knows how, without doing further damage to the coatings. Haze and fungus are two entirely different issues.

[sparkie]

My advice is to find yourself a clean 50/2.0 Rigid. You will have no problems fitting and using it with the M8. The rigid summicron is the same vintage and identical (supposed) optical formula. [ I will not go into this one here! ]

[wparsonsgisnet]

the optical formula for the various 50mm lenses that match the DR may be the same.

 

However, I have been told that lenses that showed they focused naturally at 20 feet rather than at infinity were made into DR lenses.

 

One poster, here, was going to have the back end cut off his DR. Perhaps he would discuss the success of his project and show pictures, again.

[jothiratnam]

Hi, I have a 50 DR, and tried, but could not mount it on my M8. I subsequently read that one can have the lens modified for use on the M8, but shall not have this done to my lens, as I'd rather keep it in its original state. Jothiratnam

[carstenw]

Paging Mark Norton:

 

Mark, I believe that the DR binds (in the normal range, not the close range) on the black plastic (?) on the inside, not on the wheel or any other component. Do you know if it would be feasible to mill a little off this black piece, to accomodate the DR? I love this lens, and would love to use it on the M8.

 

Douglas, the 50 DRs are all meant to be exactly 51.9mm. If you unscrew the optical element from the back end, you will see a scratched 51.9 on the inside surface. Mine is this way, and so was the other one I have examined. Others have backed this up, and no one has presented a different lens, so I presume it is true.

 

Ed, mine doesn't have haze (lots of tiny dust particles though), and I have not seen one which did. Where did you read this?

[dougdarter]

Hi,

 

Thanks for all who gave helpful replies.

 

I accept the verdict of the majority, and will not attempt to use it on my M8.

 

I'm going to have to trade it for yet another Summicron!!

[Jack_Flesher]

Just to add to this thread, though a bit OT...

 

I owned a couple of these back in my film M days, and it was THE sharpest lens I have ever tested period in the center for resolution. It went beyond my ability to measure it on film, which I estimate was somewhere in the area of 140 LPmm in the center. It did fall off toward the edge to more normal numbers, but the center was incredible...

 

BTW, it will mount just fine in the normal range on your M8, just don't try to enter the macro range with the lens mounted on the camera or try to mount the lens with the macro position engaged.

 

Cheers,

[Shootist]

Paging Mark Norton:

 

 

Ed, mine doesn't have haze (lots of tiny dust particles though), and I have not seen one which did. Where did you read this?

Camerquest for one. Try shining a light through it at a angle and look through it from the other end. That will show what is really in the lens, dust and such on the glass.

The first two I looked at had bad haze, visible to the naked eye. The last one only showed the haze when shiniing a light through it. I contacted the person I bought it from and sent him picture of it. He took it back as it was listed as clean.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[luigi bertolotti]

I bother, because I collect as well as use, and it's good to be able to use the old vintage lenses on my M8. I already have 3 Summicrons, and the all offer a different type of IQ. It would be good to try the DR, as it's rumoured to be extra special.

 

I can't for the life of me imagine where you get the idea that 'most, if not all' DR 50's have haze or fogging?? I've seen quite a few which have optics as clear as the day they left the factory, and I expect mine to be the same!! Dust?? a little, but this happens to older lenses. If you justify the statement by saying that you've read it, then your evidence is apocryphal, and non objective, and therefore debatable. Gather your own evidence before making such sweeping statements.

 

I have a suspicion that Leica says not to use the DR - it actually says in the CF range, because they are aware that people may not recognise the hazards of trying to mount the lens and use it in close focus. Using it in normal range might well be possible.

 

Are you aware that all the DR's are actually more than 50mm? I'm told that most are around 52mm, and some 53mm. It may be that this tiny discrepancy is the major decider as to whether the lens can focus at infinity??

 

Regarding the effective focal length, also to me reasults that all the DRs were of the 51,9 variant; personally, I don't give credit to the voices that DRs are sharper than the normal version... I have a DR of '60 and a std. of '62 (52,5) and never noticed differences on film... still don't have the courage to try the DR on M8...