Is the new M6 too expensive?

[LocalHero1953]

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10 hours ago, logan2z said:

What, you don't prefer Hussah?

Because it is not part-replaceable with Huzzah.

[andrew01]

I think the price of the new M6 is reasonable for the following reasons:

- Leica M cameras have always been this price.

- The build quality and reliability continues to improve (better materials and more reliable electronics).

- These are niche luxury items produced in relatively small numbers.

 

I already have two nice M cameras so I won’t be buying one, but if I was at the stage of my life when I wanted to treat myself to something nice and had the spare funds to do so, this would be high on my list. Its a bit like buying a nice watch. You can’t justify it on any practical terms.

[Mikep996]

I'm having trouble justifying it even on IMpracticle terms!  I have an original M6 that is working perfectly so I need a new version of the same camera because...

uh...

er...

well...

umm...

Oh, RIGHT! "Because," as George Mallory once said, "It is there!" 🥴

Edited November 1, 2022 by Mikep996

[a.noctilux]

Is the new M6 too expensive?

 

Nothing is TTTOOOO expensive

...

Very simple answer

Yes for non buyers

No for buyers

[4r36]

Although I'm really happy that Leica offers a new analog camera, in my opinion they could've and should've added, for the same prince, the speed of 1/2000 and 1/4000. In 2022 Leica users should be able to shoot wide open on film without the aid of ND filters. Otherwise why bragging about the sharpness of modern Leica lenses?

[a.noctilux]

6 minutes ago, 4r36 said:

Although I'm really happy that Leica offers a new analog camera, in my opinion they could've and should've added, for the same prince, the speed of 1/2000 and 1/4000. In 2022 Leica users should be able to shoot wide open on film without the aid of ND filters. Otherwise why bragging about the sharpness of modern Leica lenses?

You are NON buyer 😉

...

As OLD M6 user, speed 1/1000 is hardly accurate/reliable so offering shorter speeds with same technology would be kind of suicide.

I have those speeds for long on my Konica Hexar RF, same size as M6 and offering electric wind/rewind.

Edited November 1, 2022 by a.noctilux

[Anbaric]

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58 minutes ago, 4r36 said:

Although I'm really happy that Leica offers a new analog camera, in my opinion they could've and should've added, for the same prince, the speed of 1/2000 and 1/4000. In 2022 Leica users should be able to shoot wide open on film without the aid of ND filters. Otherwise why bragging about the sharpness of modern Leica lenses?

With the wide latitude of C41 film, you can shoot ISO 100 at f/2, 1/1000s (around 3 stops overexposed in Sunny 16 conditions, or about right in typical daylight where I live!) and get very nice results. But you are a bit stuck if you've loaded ISO 400 and it's a great day on the beach. I think only Nikon has managed a 1/4000s mechanical shutter, and that has metal blades. I don't think Leica is interested in further developing their 1930s cloth shutter technology at this point, and I suspect we won't see an electronically timed shutter in a film M again.

[Huss]

1 hour ago, Anbaric said:

.. don't think Leica is interested in further developing their 1930s cloth shutter technology at this point, and I suspect we won't see an electronically timed shutter in a film M again.

It's steam punk technology.  It's why I like to shoot my Ms wearing a leather top hat with welding goggles on the rim, using a monocle instead of my glasses.

[Matlock]

2 minutes ago, Huss said:

It's steam punk technology.  It's why I like to shoot my Ms wearing a leather top hat with welding goggles on the rim, using a monocle instead of my glasses.

Which eye do you place your monocle in? It could cause serious problems focussing if you get it wrong.

[BradS]

I asked my accountant, "Is the new M6 too expensive?" and after a week long, extensive financial analysis, she said, "No. It's priced fairly but it's also not in the budget for this fiscal year".

[4r36]

4 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

You are NON buyer 😉

...

As OLD M6 user, speed 1/1000 is hardly accurate/reliable so offering shorter speeds with same technology would be kind of suicide.

I have those speeds for long on my Konica Hexar RF, same size as M6 and offering electric wind/rewind.

 

3 hours ago, Anbaric said:

With the wide latitude of C41 film, you can shoot ISO 100 at f/2, 1/1000s (around 3 stops overexposed in Sunny 16 conditions, or about right in typical daylight where I live!) and get very nice results. But you are a bit stuck if you've loaded ISO 400 and it's a great day on the beach. I think only Nikon has managed a 1/4000s mechanical shutter, and that has metal blades. I don't think Leica is interested in further developing their 1930s cloth shutter technology at this point, and I suspect we won't see an electronically timed shutter in a film M again.

 

 

2 hours ago, Huss said:

It's steam punk technology.  It's why I like to shoot my Ms wearing a leather top hat with welding goggles on the rim, using a monocle instead of my glasses.

 

 

The point is precisely whether Leica is willing to invest and go beyond its "steam punk technology" xD. By now it's clear that they have no intention to do so. In the future, who knows...My complaint is in fact not just mine, but Peter Karbe's, who ironically, not to say polemically, when asked the question of whether Leica put any thought in increasing shutter speeds, commented with the word "exactly" the remark of the interviewer, who said that this is arguably a question for Stefan Daniels. Karbe finally said, thumbing up, "thanks for that question, please highlight it" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ1xM7qVSXo ; 1:20:45). 

[BradS]

25 minutes ago, 4r36 said:

...

The point is precisely whether Leica is willing to invest and go beyond its "steam punk technology" xD. By now it's clear that they have no intention to do so.

Even adding just 1/2000 would necessitate a complete re-design of the shutter mechanism and likely also require new lighter weight components and shutter blind materials. Certainly, this would have raised to cost & price of the resultant camera...but it is clear that the retail sales price (below that of the MP and M-A) was a design constraint. Thus, I suspect that however much they wanted to offer a faster shutter speed, they were not able to do that and keep the retail sales price below that of the MP and M-A while also maintaining the overall high quality of the product.

[earleygallery]

14 minutes ago, BradS said:

Even adding just 1/2000 would necessitate a complete re-design of the shutter mechanism and likely also require new lighter weight components and shutter blind materials. Certainly, this would have raised to cost & price of the resultant camera...but it is clear that the retail sales price (below that of the MP and M-A) was a design constraint. Thus, I suspect that however much they wanted to offer a faster shutter speed, they were not able to do that and keep the retail sales price below that of the MP and M-A while also maintaining the overall high quality of the product.

But apparently the M6 is 'all new' everything redesigned from the ground up!

To have spent all that time and money on a new design and still maintain a similar price to the old models can only mean that they have managed to cut costs on the internals, cheaper materials and internal components I guess?

Edited November 2, 2022 by earleygallery

[Anbaric]

35 minutes ago, 4r36 said:

The point is precisely whether Leica is willing to invest and go beyond its "steam punk technology" xD. By now it's clear that they have no intention to do so. In the future, who knows...My complaint is in fact not just mine, but Peter Karbe's, who ironically, not to say polemically, when asked the question of whether Leica put any thought in increasing shutter speeds, commented with the word "exactly" the remark of the interviewer, who said that this is arguably a question for Stefan Daniels. Karbe finally said, thumbing up, "thanks for that question, please highlight it" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ1xM7qVSXo ; 1:20:45). 

After that video was made, I guess Peter Karbe got his wish with the M11, which adds an electronic shutter that will take you to 1/16000s, fast enough to shoot at f/1.4 in 'sunny 16' conditions without overexposing. But I don't think it would be reasonable to expect something like this in a film M today, or even a super-fast mechanical shutter like the one in the R8 & R9, which went up to 1/8000s. Do most film M users, who seem happy with 1950s style rangefinders and 1970s style exposure meters (or no meters at all) really want the sort of redesign that would be needed to accommodate electronically timed metal shutters? For better or for worse, the whole film shooting culture in the digital era seems biased towards manual mechanical cameras, and the extraordinary technology that went into late model SLRs is largely neglected. A mid-range AF SLR is about the best bargain in 'analogue' photography. You could also argue that the exposure latitude of negative film actually makes very fast shutters less necessary than they are in digital cameras.

[BradS]

1 hour ago, earleygallery said:

But apparently the M6 is 'all new' everything redesigned from the ground up!

To have spent all that time and money on a new design and still maintain a similar price to the old models can only mean that they have managed to cut costs on the internals, cheaper materials and internal components I guess?

do I detect a hint of sarcasm?

[jukka]

8 hours ago, 4r36 said:

In 2022 Leica users should be able to shoot wide open on film without the aid of ND filters. Otherwise why bragging about the sharpness of modern Leica lenses?

On my M7, with any lens, I have all the time used either a UV or an ND filter, depending on the weather or time of day. Don’t really feel that this is a big deal; protects the lens and enables shooting wide open. 

Honestly, I rather take the reliable, silent, and stable vertical cloth before any metal shutter just for the sake of speed.

My fifty cron v4 is not exactly modern, I suppose, but haven’t noticed any issues with sharpness - should I have?

Edited November 2, 2022 by jukka

[Herr Barnack]

8 hours ago, 4r36 said:

Although I'm really happy that Leica offers a new analog camera, in my opinion they could've and should've added, for the same prince, the speed of 1/2000 and 1/4000. In 2022 Leica users should be able to shoot wide open on film without the aid of ND filters. Otherwise why bragging about the sharpness of modern Leica lenses?

They should have added video, too.

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Herr Barnack

[madNbad]

40 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said:

They should have added video, too.

 

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[Mikep996]

If any of the "younger folks" Leica is hoping to attract visited this website, they would never buy a Leica camera.  

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[Matlock]

18 minutes ago, Mikep996 said:

If any of the "younger folks" Leica is hoping to attract visited this website, they would never buy a Leica camera.  

Let's face it, anyone visiting this site for the first time would never buy a Leica, it's probably the most negative forum I have ever come across. Thank goodness there are enough positive members to keep it alive (just).