How many will get a M6

[lmans]

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On 10/27/2022 at 4:45 AM, UliWer said:

Well, the M 4-2 only had frames in the viewfinder for 4 different focal lengths, the M4-P had six - like the "old" M6 (not counting the versions with different rangefinder magnification), the MP (not counting "Á-la-Carte"-versions) and the "new" M6. I am not sure if the M4-2 and M4-P already had the - downgraded - viewfinder of the M6 which had no coated optical elements like the MP, though you already could upgrade an "old" M6-viewfinder to MP-level already.. So it's nothing new since the MP. I am rather sure, you could take pictures with the MP already. 

The MA is the pinnacle of all pure Leica Film cameras.... In order to appreciate how good a camera the MA is, you need to look at the progression of Leica Film (pure) from the M3 on up..... Yes, while nothing new to the MA which hasn't been on 'one camera or the other' in the pure film line-up, the MA gains it's pinnacle status from the fact that the MA is manufactured to cherry-pick the best features of all previous cameras.

If you look at the pure film progression you will find the M3 started it off, and then Leica went on what might be called, a cheaper approach to building the same camera. They continued that until the M4 / M4P. All of these cameras (M3, M2, M5, M4 and M4-P, M7 )....had features that were great, and than they included features which were 'not so great'. Many of these features were minor things such as plastic components, or the film rewind, or frame lines or or or or . 

But the point is that with each model.....they didn't necessarily build upon the other in 'all areas' but in fact might have taken a step back in minor ways. Yet years and new models came and went with Leica not really learning from what was good or bad and creating a camera that encapsulated the 'best of the best' .... 

I would have to say that with the arrival of the M4-P, it or the original M3 are the closest to the current MA. But with improved interior....top-plate...the throwback to the M3 film rewind...better film covering for better grip, improved viewfinder, etc....the MA I feel earns it's mark as being pinnacle of the current line-up. 

We haven't seen the M6 yet, but we know what Leica has in the MP .... and in my thinking and my way of shooting....the pure camera without a light meter is best. Others will differ.....  

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[Huss]

6 minutes ago, lmans said:

The MA is the pinnacle of all pure Leica Film cameras.... In order to appreciate how good a camera the MA is, you need to look at the progression of Leica Film (pure) from the M3 on up..... Yes, while nothing new to the MA which hasn't been on 'one camera or the other' in the pure film line-up, the MA gains it's pinnacle status from the fact that the MA is manufactured to cherry-pick the best features of all previous cameras.

If you look at the pure film progression you will find the M3 started it off, and then Leica went on what might be called, a cheaper approach to building the same camera. They continued that until the M4 / M4P. All of these cameras (M3, M2, M5, M4 and M4-P, M7 )....had features that were great, and than they included features which were 'not so great'. Many of these features were minor things such as plastic components, or the film rewind, or frame lines or or or or . 

But the point is that with each model.....they didn't necessarily build upon the other in 'all areas' but in fact might have taken a step back in minor ways. Yet years and new models came and went with Leica not really learning from what was good or bad and creating a camera that encapsulated the 'best of the best' .... 

I would have to say that with the arrival of the M4-P, it or the original M3 are the closest to the current MA. But with improved interior....top-plate...the throwback to the M3 film rewind...better film covering for better grip, improved viewfinder, etc....the MA I feel earns it's mark as being pinnacle of the current line-up. 

We haven't seen the M6 yet, but we know what Leica has in the MP .... and in my thinking and my way of shooting....the pure camera without a light meter is best. Others will differ.....  

the M-A has that plastic gear in the film counter that can break like the MP and all the other Ms that cheapened out on.

I use an M-A, as well as MP, 7, 5, 3 etc.  your devotion to the A is admirable.

[TheBestSLIsALeicaflex]

Like the older models best -- M3, M2, M4 ect -- because find the frame lines are more accurate, at least at the distance I typically shoot.  When they added the 28, they shrunk most of the others down to fit it, claiming at the time -- ha, ha -- you would anyways loose that much space to the plastic sleeve of slide film.  And never much liked the diode meter of the M6, ect, much prefer match/needle, and anyway my mind mostly works faster than meters in most situations.  Still though, these two new items are the first offerings from Leica I might possibly be interested in a very long time.  How cool to open the box on the "same" camera you bought new 30 years ago!!!!   It does say something about film use, and for us total film guys that's a bright spot too.  

[mujk]

On 10/28/2022 at 12:47 PM, logan2z said:

The new M6 user manual is available for download on this page:

https://leica-camera.com/en-US/photography/cameras/m/m6/technical-specs

Page 35 describes the operation of the meter:

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Maybe I'm reading this incorrectly, but this seems backwards given that clockwise rotation of the shutter speed dial results in higher shutter speeds. 

 

 

 

 

I think you read it correctly, because this particular sentence is copied from the M6TTL manual, where the dial goes the other way. The MP manual has a different description:

[Anbaric]

27 minutes ago, mujk said:

I think you read it correctly, because this particular sentence is copied from the M6TTL manual, where the dial goes the other way. The MP manual has a different description

Do you mean 'In addition to the direction of rotation of the shutter-speed dial and aperture ring necessary for correct exposure, the three LEDs...'? That's strictly true for all the cameras, but the trick is how you interpret 'direction of rotation'. For the aperture, the active meter arrow shows you which way the top of the ring should be moved to get a correct exposure.  For the M6 Classic, MP, and the new M6, the arrow indicates the direction the 'back' of the shutter speed dial (nearest your eye) should move (like a thumbwheel). For the TTL, which has a reversed dial relative to the others, the arrow indicates how the 'front' of the dial (nearest the lens) should move (which is arguably more natural for a large dial that's easier to spin with just your index finger).

The MP manual is, if anything, overexplaining in a rather counterintuitive way - I think it's easier to think of the back of the shutter speed dial moving to the right (in the direction of the metering arrow) rather than the front of the dial moving left (in the opposite direction to the arrow) when the underexposure LED is illuminated. Maybe that's why they simplified the description in the new M6 manual?

[Anbaric]

11 hours ago, Huss said:

the M-A has that plastic gear in the film counter that can break like the MP and all the other Ms that cheapened out on.

I use an M-A, as well as MP, 7, 5, 3 etc.  your devotion to the A is admirable.

The M-A has that cheap plastic Fresnel frameline illuminator too, like the M2 and all the other economy models. Everyone knows the M3, M6J, and of course the III series LTM cameras are the only premium Leicas.😉

[Huss]

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20 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

Do you mean 'In addition to the direction of rotation of the shutter-speed dial and aperture ring necessary for correct exposure, the three LEDs...'? That's strictly true for all the cameras, but the trick is how you interpret 'direction of rotation'. For the aperture, the active meter arrow shows you which way the top of the ring should be moved to get a correct exposure.  For the M6 Classic, MP, and the new M6, the arrow indicates the direction the 'back' of the shutter speed dial (nearest your eye) should move (like a thumbwheel). For the TTL, which has a reversed dial relative to the others, the arrow indicates how the 'front' of the dial (nearest the lens) should move (which is arguably more natural for a large dial that's easier to spin with just your index finger).

The MP manual is, if anything, overexplaining in a rather counterintuitive way - I think it's easier to think of the back of the shutter speed dial moving to the right (in the direction of the metering arrow) rather than the front of the dial moving left (in the opposite direction to the arrow) when the underexposure LED is illuminated. Maybe that's why they simplified the description in the new M6 manual?

There is only one way to interpret direction of rotation - from the front .  You cannot move the dial like a thumbwheel looking through the viewfinder to see the exposure leds as the film advance lever is in the way.

[logan2z]

11 minutes ago, Huss said:

There is only one way to interpret direction of rotation - from the front .  You cannot move the dial like a thumbwheel looking through the viewfinder to see the exposure leds as the film advance lever is in the way.

Hence my confusion over the instructions in the user manual.  The arrow directions seem counter-intuitive.  

Edited October 29, 2022 by logan2z

[logan2z]

2 hours ago, mujk said:

I think you read it correctly, because this particular sentence is copied from the M6TTL manual, where the dial goes the other way. The MP manual has a different description:

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That description makes more sense.  All they need to do now is flip the direction of the arrows and it would be intuitive 🙂

Edited October 29, 2022 by logan2z

[mujk]

7 minutes ago, Huss said:

There is only one way to interpret direction of rotation - from the front .  You cannot move the dial like a thumbwheel looking through the viewfinder to see the exposure leds as the film advance lever is in the way.

I agree. Based on the images of the new M6, the shutter speed dial value direction is the same as for the M6 classic an MP and in the opposite direction when compared to the M6TTL and M7. The MP manual describes this correctly, as does the M6TTL manual. Now there is some confusion regarding the new M6: images indicate one functionality and the text in the manual (and the video) the opposite.

[Anbaric]

7 minutes ago, Huss said:

There is only one way to interpret direction of rotation - from the front .  You cannot move the dial like a thumbwheel looking through the viewfinder to see the exposure leds as the film advance lever is in the way.

Of course you can, or at least between forefinger and thumb as I tend to (you may have noticed that the film advance has a stand-off position...). But the point is not whether you actually use your thumb, but how you think about how the dial is rotating with reference to the metering arrows. Consider how the back of the dial is moving, and everything becomes intuitive.

[Anbaric]

10 minutes ago, logan2z said:

That description makes more sense.  All they need to do now is flip the direction of the arrows and it would be intuitive 🙂

They'd have to reverse all the aperture rings too, which would be one way of selling a new set of lenses! 🙂

Edited October 29, 2022 by Anbaric

[logan2z]

4 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

They'd have to reverse all the aperture rings to, which would be one way of selling a new set of lenses! 🙂

Brilliant! 🙂

[ktmrider2]

I suspect only the owner of an MA would say it is the ultimate Leica film camera.  I see a couple features on the camera I could do without like the crowded viewfinder window or the slow antiquated film rewind.  As I have said on another thread most of us here would require that Leica make us a camera "a la carte" for us to get EXACTLY what we want.  And the features we want now might change down the road so even a new "a la carte" body may not be long term.

And where is its self timer?

Edited October 29, 2022 by ktmrider2

[Anbaric]

2 minutes ago, mujk said:

I agree. Based on the images of the new M6, the shutter speed dial value direction is the same as for the M6 classic an MP and in the opposite direction when compared to the M6TTL and M7. The MP manual describes this correctly, as does the M6TTL manual. Now there is some confusion regarding the new M6: images indicate one functionality and the text in the manual (and the video) the opposite.

The video was confusing, but there's really only one way this can work with the M6 Classic style shutter speed dial, which is what the new M6 has. They can't swap the metering arrows, because that would be the 'wrong' way for the aperture. I think the manual is OK. I suppose they could have gone back to the original Classic manual, which doesn't mention the shutter speed dial at all in the section on using the meter, just the aperture ring.

[Matlock]

14 minutes ago, ktmrider2 said:

I suspect only the owner of an MA would say it is the ultimate Leica film camera.  I see a couple features on the camera I could do without like the crowded viewfinder window or the slow antiquated film rewind.  As I have said on another thread most of us here would require that Leica make us a camera "a la carte" for us to get EXACTLY what we want.  And the features we want now might change down the road so even a new "a la carte" body may not be long term.

And where is its self timer?

I can't remember the last time that I used a self timer even though I have a number of cameras fitted with them. That is probably one reason they were discontinued from the M4-2.

[logan2z]

16 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

The video was confusing, but there's really only one way this can work with the M6 Classic style shutter speed dial, which is what the new M6 has. They can't swap the metering arrows, because that would be the 'wrong' way for the aperture. I think the manual is OK. I suppose they could have gone back to the original Classic manual, which doesn't mention the shutter speed dial at all in the section on using the meter, just the aperture ring.

Like anything, I'm sure one gets used to it and it becomes second nature. 

It does seem a little odd to have to think about the rear of the shutter speed dial when, in all likelihood, one is turning the dial from the front, but it's a minor quibble.  

 

[Anbaric]

7 minutes ago, logan2z said:

Like anything, I'm sure one gets used to it and it becomes second nature. 

It does seem a little odd to have to think about the rear of the shutter speed dial when, in all likelihood, one is turning the dial from the front, but it's a minor quibble. 

Yes, and I can understand why TTL users prefer the way they work, which would seem more logical unless you are used to the Classic or other 'small dial' Leicas. I suppose if they'd been designing the M6 Classic and its lenses from scratch, they wouldn't have done it quite the way they did, but they were stuck with the legacy direction of the aperture ring and a shutter designed to work with a speed dial that rotates in a direction that doesn't match the most obvious interpretation of the left/right arrows. The idler gear that allows the reversed dial on the TTL is an engineering solution to a conceptual problem. But it creates another problem - inconsistency between cameras - that continues today, since the digital Ms and the current film Ms have dials that rotate in opposite directions.

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[ktmrider2]

I am always amazed at the lack of people who cannot detect sarcasm when it comes up and slaps them in the face.  My last thread was in response to someone saying the MA is the pinnacle of Leica film cameras.  There are just as many if not more users here who would ask where in the meter or where is the modern film rewind, or where is the .92 or .58 viewfinder.  

If the MA is the pinnacle of film cameras, than why don't we all own or strive to own one?  I think the M2 reached the pinnacle decades before the MA with that cluttered viewfinder.  And. since it does not have a meter, there is room inside for the self timer gearing so why was it not added?  And I admit to not having used the self timer on my Leicas in decades but we can always wish.

Edited October 29, 2022 by ktmrider2

[Huss]

1 hour ago, Anbaric said:

Of course you can, or at least between forefinger and thumb as I tend to (you may have noticed that the film advance has a stand-off position...). But the point is not whether you actually use your thumb, but how you think about how the dial is rotating with reference to the metering arrows. Consider how the back of the dial is moving, and everything becomes intuitive.

No, because you are now using your forefinger and your thumb is still being fouled by the advance lever.  
 

The simple fact is the M6ttl and M7’s shutter speed dials move in the correct way in relation to the arrows in the vf. It is the one thing I find frustrating about my MP.

 

Edited October 29, 2022 by Huss