18mm f2.8 prime in comparison to Sigma 18-50 f2.8

[Coffeecup]

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Hi all,

My very first post on this forum. I recently bought a T (701) paired with a 23mm f2. I so much was intrigued by how it holds, handles and how it'ss build that I started obsessing about the rest of the APS-C line up. Things can move fast so I've pulled the trigger on a new CL 18mm kit. Didn't expect that to happen but when a deal is there, it's there lol...

My question is if anybody has made a comparison between the 18mm pancake Leica to the Sigma 18-50 f2.8. They're equally fast. The 18mm isn't regared as that spectacular. The 18-50mm should be quite comparable to the 18-56. The latter being regared as 'better' than the 18 prime.

Would it make sense keeping the 18mm when I've got the Sigma 18-50? Or might as well immedeately sell as brand-new unused de-kit? 

Any thoughts on real world users?

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[jaapv]

Apples and oranges. The deciding factor is not in the image quality, the differences are so small as to be irrelevant in real- world use. The 18 shines for compactness and portability, the zooms for versatility. 

[wda]

Many people underestimate the challenge of using a wide-angle lens or zoom setting. Getting a lot more in comes at the cost of losing your main point of interest.  Go out with only your prime 18 mm lens, and look for suitable subjects with strong foreground interest.  Learn how to use the lens. If youu master that challenge,  you will enjoy having the prime lens only when electing to travel with a very compact camera. 

[Coffeecup]

27 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Apples and oranges. The deciding factor is not in the image quality, the differences are so small as to be irrelevant in real- world use. The 18 shines for compactness and portability, the zooms for versatility. 

Main reason is that I think I'll own too many lenses within a short range: the 23mm f2 is a keeper. The 18mm f2.8 comes new with the CL-kit. And then there's the Sigma 18-50 f2.8 incoming from MPB.
That Sigma has the same f2.8 aperture, hence I was thinking "why keep the 18". I know it's apples and oranges (small, pancake like prime versus a third-party zoom) but it feels like such a big overlap, having the same focal length with the same max aperture. And also with the 23mm I already own so close by.

I could always pair the 18mm to the T, the 23mm to the CL and have the 18-50 on the side. Will I regret de-kitting this set? Can't tell yet and I guess seeing others thoughts would help.

[Coffeecup]

14 minutes ago, wda said:

Many people underestimate the challenge of using a wide-angle lens or zoom setting. Getting a lot more in comes at the cost of losing your main point of interest.  Go out with only your prime 18 mm lens, and look for suitable subjects with strong foreground interest.  Learn how to use the lens. If youu master that challenge,  you will enjoy having the prime lens only when electing to travel with a very compact camera. 

I'm one of those people lol. I'm getting overwhelmed with all the framing space that anything sub-30mm gives. I've got the quite legendary 24mm f2.8 from Nikon and although it gives nice images, I'm always lost when to use it. I see myself more as a 35-70mm kind-of-shooter than a sub-35mm I guess.

[jaapv]

Well the secret is to fill that space either with a strong  element in the foreground or wit a picture-in-picture composition. There is a very nice super wide angle image thread in the forum for inspiration. 

[Einst_Stein]

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I got the 18mm with the CL+18mm  kit too. Cannot resist the chrome look and the discount price.
Now the 18mm is on my silvery T, and CL is  with the three zooms.

T+18mm is my mini Q, cute and irreplaceable, and essential for hiking.  I got more pictures from this set than CL. 

 

[elambo]

I find the 18 to be a very capable lens. I also have the Sigma 18-50 Art lens and like it quite a lot. Oddly enough, I've not compared them directly at 18mm but haven't felt the need to which is a good sign for the Sigma.

[Coffeecup]

5 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

I got the 18mm with the CL+18mm  kit too. Cannot resist the chrome look and the discount price.
Now the 18mm is on my silvery T, and CL is  with the three zooms.

T+18mm is my mini Q, cute and irreplaceable, and essential for hiking.  I got more pictures from this set than CL. 

 

I’ve set a ‘stock alert’ at Leica Amsterdam, thinking it’ll never come back in stock. But after a week or so I received an update and couldn’t resist this. 
 

I think it’s a good idea to pair it with the T. It makes for a super small package. I won’t sell it off immediately. MPB offers a little under €700 for the 18mm brand new as a trade in lens. I might as well keep it for a couple of weeks (months) and decide later. 

5 hours ago, elambo said:

I find the 18 to be a very capable lens. I also have the Sigma 18-50 Art lens and like it quite a lot. Oddly enough, I've not compared them directly at 18mm but haven't felt the need to which is a good sign for the Sigma.

Good to hear! I actually send the 18-50mm back to MPB. There was a very small chip visible on the inside of the back element. It was there but didn’t affect image quality. Knowing that that’s there was enough for me to not keep it. I didn’t thought it was reflected  in the price.

I think I’ll just hold on for a bit with just the 18mm on the TL and 23mm on the CL so that I can decide for the Sigma zoom at Black Friday. I can then know for sure if I’d like a zoom or a third prime around the 50mm area. 
 

Is there a third party telezoom btw? Like a 50-150 or 70-200 (or something like that) which is good?

[Einst_Stein]

I have R 80-200mm, MF is not a problem at all, but the weight balance is simply not pair-able with CL. Same problem with other L mount Sigma and Panasonic zooms. It is bad only Leica 55-135mm fits well on CL. 

[jaapv]

Actually that is  a matter of being used to long and heavy lenses.
You always need to find the balance point for your left hand and as soon as you have found it the bulk/weight of the camera becomes irrelevant. You use your left hand for balanced support and your right hand to steer the rig and operate the shutter. If the weight is too much to keep stable on your left hand you use a monopod or a chest pod, or, which I prefer, a bean bag.
What you don't do is hold the camera -any camera- with two hands or behind the balance point of the rig. You'll start waving it around.
On a side note, your stance is essential too, and the sharpshooters trick of using the strap as an extra support.
Believe me, I have been in this game since 1988... I got fantastic results with the CL and 105-280-R and Sigma 150-600 DG DN (with OIS  ). Those lenses have a tripod mount in exactly the right spot to fit in your hand. 

Now I tend to use a Pana S5,  not that much bigger and about the same weight as an M. Nice grip, even better than the one for the CL, that helps too. 

Apologies for straying OT, but a misconception had to be countered  

[Coffeecup]

46 minutes ago, jaapv said:

 

Now I tend to use a Pana S5,  not that much bigger and about the same weight as an M. Nice grip, even better than the one for the CL, that helps too. 

Apologies for straying OT, but a misconception had to be countered  

My mind said: buy an S5. Or a Sony for that matter. Maybe a Fuji as APS-C. 
Why buy even further in an abandoned system…

But the heart decided to grab that creditcard while ordering the CL+18 which arrived today. I didn’t believe my eyes when I received a ‘Back in stock’ email!
It really is brand spanking new from Leica Amsterdam for €2.490,-. Quite expensive for what it is. But on the other hand affordable for what it was. I’ll miss some features of my Pen-F but I’ll guess this one is here for the long stay. 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Coffeecup

[wda]

Enjoy!

[jaapv]

3 hours ago, Coffeecup said:

My mind said: buy an S5. Or a Sony for that matter. Maybe a Fuji as APS-C. 
Why buy even further in an abandoned system…

But the heart decided to grab that creditcard while ordering the CL+18 which arrived today. I didn’t believe my eyes when I received a ‘Back in stock’ email!
It really is brand spanking new from Leica Amsterdam for €2.490,-. Quite expensive for what it is. But on the other hand affordable for what it was. I’ll miss some features of my Pen-F but I’ll guess this one is here for the long stay. 

Not a bad idea - the S5 does not replace the CL, but supplements it.

[Coffeecup]

Unfortunately I haven’t got and-and money. The T and CL completely replaces my M4/3 gear which I’ve sold to MPB. There still is a Nikon D610 but it doesn’t get much use because I really enjoy small and leightweight gear. 

[elambo]

On 9/1/2022 at 1:35 PM, Coffeecup said:

My mind said: buy an S5. Or a Sony for that matter. Maybe a Fuji as APS-C. 
Why buy even further in an abandoned system…

But the heart decided to grab that creditcard while ordering the CL+18 which arrived today. I didn’t believe my eyes when I received a ‘Back in stock’ email!
It really is brand spanking new from Leica Amsterdam for €2.490,-. Quite expensive for what it is. But on the other hand affordable for what it was. I’ll miss some features of my Pen-F but I’ll guess this one is here for the long stay. 

Congrats! I'm sure you'll love it.

[Coffeecup]

Update: I ended up sending back the CL + 18mm kit. I couldn't feel and see the premium in the build. It was quite a disappointment looking at it next to the T. But also comparing to for instance the Pen-F. I didn't feel the sense of quality I expected. Not in the feel of holding it and pressing buttons etc, but also not in the color of the body.

I thought the silver version would look stylish, but it was the color that turned me off most. Not in the least the silver color of the 18mm lens, which by the way reminded me very strongly of the MFT Lumix 20mm.

Soooo... That's that. Who would've thought. Contemplating on what to do next...

Edited September 6, 2022 by Coffeecup

[elambo]

10 hours ago, Coffeecup said:

Update: I ended up sending back the CL + 18mm kit. I couldn't feel and see the premium in the build. It was quite a disappointment looking at it next to the T. But also comparing to for instance the Pen-F. I didn't feel the sense of quality I expected. Not in the feel of holding it and pressing buttons etc, but also not in the color of the body.

I thought the silver version would look stylish, but it was the color that turned me off most. Not in the least the silver color of the 18mm lens, which by the way reminded me very strongly of the MFT Lumix 20mm.

Soooo... That's that. Who would've thought. Contemplating on what to do next...

Did you take any photos with it?

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[Coffeecup]

Yes and the return parcel is still on the way. I kept second guessing this decision because those files are just… magnificent.
I’ve even had a bad night sleep sending back one of the most capable cameras, just because I didn’t really like its lens barrel color (….)?

i might even just….. 😂 

1 hour ago, elambo said:

Did you take any photos with it?

 

[wda]

3 hours ago, Coffeecup said:

Yes and the return parcel is still on the way. I kept second guessing this decision because those files are just… magnificent.
I’ve even had a bad night sleep sending back one of the most capable cameras, just because I didn’t really like its lens barrel color (….)?

i might even just….. 😂 

 

Words fail me. Are aesthetics more important than ergonomics and performance ?