Peaky artifacts on negatives Leica MP

[nikrasov]

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Hi!

I'm new to film photography and currently only shot and developed 3 films on Leica MP:

1 - Fomapan 400 bw (LQR)

2 and 3 - Ilford HP5+ (Ilfosol 3)

I noticed that on 2-d film (2 negatives) and on 3-d (1 negative) are affected by strange peaky flare at the bottom center of the frame.

Fomapan negatives does not affected.

This flares are also present on perforated part of the film. Please, see images.

Any thoughts on what that could be?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[a.noctilux]

Just an idea, maybe the door has something inside the articulated fabric light seal (about in the middle).

Have a close look opening the door or better yet take it off your MP with a small screwdriver crosshead.

[250swb]

The film door on an MP just unclips, no screwdriver is necessary to remove it, but I agree I'd look along the top edge of the film door first (the image is projected onto the film upside down and back to front inside the camera, so the flare is coming from the top).

[a.noctilux]

52 minutes ago, 250swb said:

The film door on an MP just unclips, no screwdriver is necessary to remove it, but I agree I'd look along the top edge of the film door first (the image is projected onto the film upside down and back to front inside the camera, so the flare is coming from the top).

Steve,

Screwdriver (right size x ) not to unscrew anything, just to make unlocking easier.

Older M does have a small lever to detach the door easily.

On my newer (I think from M6 to M-A) locking latch replaced with smaller (tiny) device needing a tool.

[Herr Barnack]

 

Quote

...I noticed that on 2-d film (2 negatives) and on 3-d (1 negative) are affected by strange peaky flare at the bottom center of the frame...

I would think that if it were a light leak, all negatives would be affected, not just some - and Fomapan would not be exempt. 

Since this is intermittent, perhaps you have a light leak somewhere in the film processing chain of events.  Check the lid of your developing tank for a small crack along the edge, perhaps?  If you use a changing bag, check it for small holes or cuts, too.

[adan]

On 8/27/2022 at 9:20 AM, Herr Barnack said:

I would think that if it were a light leak, all negatives would be affected, not just some

Don't forget that film exposure is time-cumulative. A very subtle light leak may not register on film if the film is being constantly advanced every few seconds - but grow to be visible if the film sits motionless in one position for several minutes/hours/days.

That was a key factor in diagnosing a leak in an M4-2 I had around 1982. The fogging (a vertical peak somewhat similar to the OP's) only showed up on some frames.

By going through the negs in sequence, it became apparent that the intermittent leak always and only appeared on the last frame of a closely timed sequence of pictures (i.e. on the frame which, after being advanced, then sat motionless bridging the gap between the sprocket shaft and the take-up spool for a long time).

*   v (O) (v = fog location)

In that case, I tracked the leak down to a poorly-fitting rewind (R) switch on the camera front, which was leaking a very small, faint, shaft of light right down and through the thickness of the camera body (through the space formerly used for the self-timer clockwork in older Ms) onto the film in the back.

[nikrasov]

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Thank you all for good advices!

For the last two films I started to use a film-picker to get film end. Could there be some small light leaks when I put film-picker into film? But not all affected negatives are at the beginning of the film.

Edited August 29, 2022 by nikrasov

[BradS]

That's a light leak.  As others have said, it is most likely some where around the back door. Just by looking at the last two photos you attached above, I'd guess it is at the hinge.

Edited August 29, 2022 by BradS

[nikrasov]

One photographer told me that such artifacts could be because of passing throght the security frames (such as in subways). And I didn't have it in  next roll of HP5.

Then I bought and set a halfcase (which could make additional light barrier) and in the last roll of HP5 I can also see the issue :(. I didn't passes security frames with it.

Leica service advice me to check back door sealing and light leaking in the strap fixing part. I checked and don't see any issues - looks solid. Also, advice is to send a roll to develop elsewhere.

Also, I filmed shutter curtains movements in slow motion to see any uneven movements - looks ok.

Don't want to believe that the issue with the camera 🙂

Any more advices from the community?

Could I put photo paper into a camera (instead of a film) to check where is the possible leaking? Does such method exists?

Attached more issue samples.

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[pop]

Since the all affected negatives are affected in the same place - relative to the frame - I think you can rule out any errors in processing the film and most particularly any irradiation by x-ray machines.

Of course, it seems possible that the light leak is not in the place where the picture is taken but in another place where the film might remain stationary for longer times.

[Frase]

film picker things can cause light leaks, I would think it could be that.

[pop]

3 minutes ago, Frase said:

film picker things can cause light leaks, I would think it could be that.

How so, and always near the end of the film?

[hansvons]

I mistrust film pickers and thus roll back the film until I hear when the end flips off the take-up reel. But I‘m pretty sure that your light leak come from the door, upper left side. If you haven’t CLA-ed your camera yet, this will be the perfect time.

[250swb]

I doubt very much that unless the door is badly damaged the light is coming in from there. Leica's don't have light seals around the door that would be fixed with a CLA because like previous generations of M it uses a solid baffles, any seals present are dust seals. It's why you can't buy a 'Leica rear door light seal kit', just as you can't buy a Nikon F light seal kit. If however somebody has thought a light seal was missing and added some foam I suppose that may be the cause of a leak although unlikely.

The leak is coming from above and a simple guide would would be to progressively tape off different areas of the camera and at each stage pause to allow it to sit on a windowsill for an hour or two. It's unlikely to be the strap lugs if the leak is in the same place each time. And I think I recall a thread where a similar leak was coming in from the rewind lever, so start there (also check to see if it's flush with the body). Then after the windowsill treatment wind to to next frame and tape over the small rangefinder window, etc. until you've eliminated everything with a direct or indirect path for light to enter the camera, even the rear door for peace of mind. If you've kept notes at some point the leak should disappear and with that you've narrowed down the possibilities enough to show a camera tech or maybe fix something yourself.

Edited April 18, 2023 by 250swb

[nikrasov]

23 hours ago, 250swb said:

I doubt very much that unless the door is badly damaged the light is coming in from there. Leica's don't have light seals around the door that would be fixed with a CLA because like previous generations of M it uses a solid baffles, any seals present are dust seals. It's why you can't buy a 'Leica rear door light seal kit', just as you can't buy a Nikon F light seal kit. If however somebody has thought a light seal was missing and added some foam I suppose that may be the cause of a leak although unlikely.

The leak is coming from above and a simple guide would would be to progressively tape off different areas of the camera and at each stage pause to allow it to sit on a windowsill for an hour or two. It's unlikely to be the strap lugs if the leak is in the same place each time. And I think I recall a thread where a similar leak was coming in from the rewind lever, so start there (also check to see if it's flush with the body). Then after the windowsill treatment wind to to next frame and tape over the small rangefinder window, etc. until you've eliminated everything with a direct or indirect path for light to enter the camera, even the rear door for peace of mind. If you've kept notes at some point the leak should disappear and with that you've narrowed down the possibilities enough to show a camera tech or maybe fix something yourself.

Thank you for the useful tips with the tape!

I can confirm that the issue is also visible on another film (Fomapan 400).

Now I can rule out bad film batch, processing errors, x-rays and other external factors.

So, I decided to send the camera to Leica for repair. Hope that they can find and fix the bug.