Leica M5 v.s. M6 v.s. M10

[a.noctilux]

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I know that film can not be replaced 😇.

But lenses and cameras can be.

I forgot to write that the M240 family can become a good challenger of M10.

In your place, side way, I'd consider M262 (or M-D, M246) and Summarit-M lenses ...like 35 + 50 for example.

I know very well these "cheaper digital M", as I use them all, each one is great to produce great pictures.

[KenLW]

6 hours ago, colint544 said:

For what it's worth, I had an M6 for many years, and now I have an M5 (and have had that for many years also). They're both great cameras, but I prefer the M5, for these reasons:

1) Fits my hand better

2) Great design of the shutter speed dial - it overhangs the front, and is a breeze to operate

3) Great design of the film rewind. It's big, fast, and has a clutch, so if your fingers slip off, you don't have to wind tension back into it

4) Non-flaring viefinder patch

5) Real and grippy vulcanite

6) Self timer

7) Rangefinder windows slightly recessed, and don't collect collect finger prints the way flush fitted ones do

8) Shutter speeds visible in the viewfinder

9) Match-needle meter. I find this more intuitive to use than the bright red LED arrows of the M6

It feels like a lot of thought went into designing the M5. It's a proper picture-making machine. It was the last of the Wetzlar M cameras to be hand-built, and these days it's about one-third of the price of an M6. That's incredible. I also think the M5 is very handsome in an industrial sort of way. Good luck, whatever choice you make

Thank you for this list of reasons! I feel like I definitely appreciate the M5 more after talking to folks who are passionate about the M5. I feel like it is really a hidden gem. One more thing to add is that based on my research, Leica produced less M5s than the more popular M6 at the time so we really have a limited amount of M5 with good condition at this point. The same is true for all discontinued M film camera though but M5 could be especially scarce after all the Japanese collectors sell all of their stock. 

[KenLW]

5 hours ago, Matlock said:

one problem and that is the frame counter only returns to about 6 or 7

Hmm interesting! Is that a common issue? So in your case, do you will just keep shooting after passing the 36 count until you cannot do it?

[a.noctilux]

5 minutes ago, KenLW said:

Leica produced less M5s than the more popular M6 at the time so we really have a limited amount of M5 with good condition

Reading from my Leica Pocket Book 8Th. M5 from 1971-1975 10,750 chrome and 23,150 units in black.

M6 from 1984-1999, total of 132,454 units made.

[madNbad]

Get the M7. New enough you won’t have to send it for service, versatile enough to handle any film and lighting condition. M5s’ are great but they’re fifty years old a lot of technicians don’t work on them anymore. The M7 offers auto shutter speed, leaving one less thing to think about especially if you decide to use reversal films. Everyone has an opinion on what would be best but only you can decide. 

[Matlock]

Just now, KenLW said:

Hmm interesting! Is that a common issue? So in your case, do you will just keep shooting after passing the 36 count until you cannot do it?

It is a fairly common fault with quite a few Leica Ms (it has been flagged up several times). I make a note of the start no. and then subtract it from the number shown, obviously not a problem with 24 exp. films but with 36 I have to make a mental note when the counter reaches the end which is around 43 anyway.

[KenLW]

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5 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

Hello everybody,

Ken, so many valuable opinions and good advices.

You will have as many as users who answer.

So only you can decide which "solution" for now, as usual you can change your choice later 😉.

As old user of the three (plus others ...), I just add my opinions on each choice then the lenses choice is not to be neglicted:

• M5 is to be hold and use to appreciate this "big M" (some would see it as ugly, not me ) can be used with "large" lenses Noctilux 1.0/ Summilux 1.4/75 for me (with experiences lack of 75 frame lines is not a problem)
• M6 can be seen as "pretty" work horse, I understand that it can be so hyped now, VF a bit "crowded"
• M10 can do many things the other two can not, depending on the end output you are searching (prints, files,or whatelse)
• if it was me, I'd take one Leitz/Leica lens as first lens, the others can be added later on (infinite choices)

Arnaud

You made a good point about larger lens. I think the ergonomics of M5 sounds better to me in general. And it is not that big comparing to current mirrorless camera. Noctilux 1.0/75 sounds like an interesting choice. Based on your name, I assume you are a Noctilux person? I have only started to learn about Noctilux lens recently. I usually use f/5.6 or above for street or landscape but will definitely get one at some point just see the amazing bokeh.

I mainly use my cameras for travel and Instagram so a digital M with one good lens would definitely be more convenient.  (My current problem with film is I always underestimate the amount of films I need for my Minolta so I always end up with using iPhone in the end.)

[a.noctilux]

💣no there is no Noctilux 1.0/75mm yet.

Even then I'd not use one as mine 1.0/50 is less and less used.

You will see when you use one (or two) that these Noctilux are another lens as others, nothing special but a good tool,

most people become slave of them, not me.

[KenLW]

1 hour ago, Kwesi said:

 

Based on the above, I would say consider an M240.  Apart from size and one stop more high iso, there's very little difference in IQ btwn the 2 cameras.

The M240 is significantly cheaper than the M10. With the way prices are going, I doubt you will see a $4700 M11 for quite a while.

I own the M11 and have owned the M240 and M10 and would feel comfortable recommending any of them

Thank you for the suggestion. I feel like M240 + M5 would be a good combo for my wallet. The only reason I did not consider M240 is that its technology might be too close to my Q which I don't plan to sell, but I understand that a good M camera is more than technology and the M camera experience is definitely different. I think trying out the M240 with different lens might be the way to good as my first M camera to learn the rope before I start to use film M (and hopefully the film price can go down by then or I could stockpile enough film to last for a while)

[earleygallery]

I sense that you aren't really sure what you want and it's a large purchase! I think you need to evaluate what exactly you are trying to do and what the new camera needs to do for you that your current gear can't. Then make your choice/s.

Film Leica's don't tend to go down in price so if you buy and make a mistake you can at least sell again without losing out.

[KenLW]

22 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

I know that film can not be replaced 😇.

But lenses and cameras can be.

I forgot to write that the M240 family can become a good challenger of M10.

In your place, side way, I'd consider M262 (or M-D, M246) and Summarit-M lenses ...like 35 + 50 for example.

I know very well these "cheaper digital M", as I use them all, each one is great to produce great pictures.

Thank you for the advice! I feel like the M240 family of M cameras might be my best option. Having a "cheap M" would allow me to learn about the range finder system more effectively and try different lens.

[KenLW]

14 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Reading from my Leica Pocket Book 8Th. M5 from 1971-1975 10,750 chrome and 23,150 units in black.

M6 from 1984-1999, total of 132,454 units made.

Thank you for confirming those numbers. I feel like I would just a get a chrome M5 for collection purpose.

[KenLW]

16 minutes ago, madNbad said:

Get the M7. New enough you won’t have to send it for service, versatile enough to handle any film and lighting condition. M5s’ are great but they’re fifty years old a lot of technicians don’t work on them anymore. The M7 offers auto shutter speed, leaving one less thing to think about especially if you decide to use reversal films. Everyone has an opinion on what would be best but only you can decide. 

I understand the appeal of getting a newer M film body and the M7 is the only M film camera that has aperture priority. I feel like the price of M7 is too high though. 

[KenLW]

17 minutes ago, Matlock said:

It is a fairly common fault with quite a few Leica Ms (it has been flagged up several times). I make a note of the start no. and then subtract it from the number shown, obviously not a problem with 24 exp. films but with 36 I have to make a mental note when the counter reaches the end which is around 43 anyway.

Thank you for the explanations! I will keep that in mind when testing out my camera.

[KenLW]

9 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

💣no there is no Noctilux 1.0/75mm yet.

Even then I'd not use one as mine 1.0/50 is less and less used.

You will see when you use one (or two) that these Noctilux are another lens as others, nothing special but a good tool,

most people become slave of them, not me.

Good to know! Thank you!

[KenLW]

8 minutes ago, earleygallery said:

I sense that you aren't really sure what you want and it's a large purchase! I think you need to evaluate what exactly you are trying to do and what the new camera needs to do for you that your current gear can't. Then make your choice/s.

Film Leica's don't tend to go down in price so if you buy and make a mistake you can at least sell again without losing out.

Thank you for the advice! Chatting with folks here is definitely helpful for making my final choice. At this point, I am more leaning towards getting a digital M camera for travel and a slightly cheaper but yet capable Leica like the M5 or M4-2 for my collection just in case the film Leica price goes to the roof. The interesting question is that will we see the M6 price continue to go up. I feel like the only reason for me to get the M6 at this point is that I could actually afford one now but am not sure about the future. And as you said, I could always sell the film Leica camera I don't like (unless film is dead which probably won't happen anytime soon) 

[colint544]

39 minutes ago, KenLW said:

Thank you for this list of reasons! I feel like I definitely appreciate the M5 more after talking to folks who are passionate about the M5. I feel like it is really a hidden gem. One more thing to add is that based on my research, Leica produced less M5s than the more popular M6 at the time so we really have a limited amount of M5 with good condition at this point. The same is true for all discontinued M film camera though but M5 could be especially scarce after all the Japanese collectors sell all of their stock. 

You're welcome. I do feel that the M5 might be the last film M camera to be properly recognised for its true worth. I noticed that Red Dot Cameras had two of them the other week, both under £1000 - and that includes a dealer warranty - and they were sold a couple of days later. I still think that's a lot, but not compared to M6 cameras, which are reaching the £3K mark.

Edited August 7, 2022 by colint544

[KenLW]

1 minute ago, colint544 said:

You're welcome. I do feel that the M5 might be the last film M camera to be properly recognised for its true worth. I noticed that Red Dot Cameras had two of them the other week, both under £1000, and they were sold a couple of days later. I still think that's a lot, but not compared to M6 cameras, which are reaching the £3K mark.

Yeah, I know I could easily get the M5 around $1.2k which IMHO is undervalued. The M6, on the other hand, might be overvalued. 

[a.noctilux]

More on M5 ...

I used to have for a time silver chrome M5 which (for me) appear much bigger than black chrome M5

Still have two (one is my wife's M5) and the good thing is now it can use modern battery (like SR44 in an adapted ring), to be checked if the modification to use 1.5V was done.

My M5 portrait, when I bought my first M6 in 1985.

as side note, our M5s never need repair, only CLA and 1.5V modifications many years ago.

Edited August 7, 2022 by a.noctilux

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[a.noctilux]

Here is the nice viewfinder of M5

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