Newbie Inquiries into M11 problems

[LocalHero1953]

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On 6/9/2022 at 12:42 AM, S Maclean said:

But even if I very carefully aligned it, then press and rotate r press the button and rotate (i tried both ways)  it finds a point of strong resistance that I have to push through before the button clicks.

You shouldn't have to press the button to attach the lens - if that's what you're doing. You only press the button to remove it.

[S Maclean]

22 minutes ago, Mikeal said:

The thing you have to get used to is that a rangefinder is a mechanical device that is imperfect. You just have to go out and take photos. Only worry about your exposure and just take pictures. 

for hyperfocal distance, just look at the lens. the lens tells you. Just look down at it. 

Analyzing everything this critically looking at EXIF data like you’re going through lab testing isn’t fun IMO. If this is what you want to do, then IMO, I would suggest maybe a Sony A7RIV with the new 50f1.2 GM or the new Canon R5 with the 50f1.2R. This will give you perfect focus and data and all that. 
 

If you really want to drive yourself crazy, frame something perfectly with your rangefinder, then look at your photos and see the real frame in the picture. It will never be the same. Even the frame lines you’re looking at aren’t exactly what you’re getting in the picture. 

I think I may have explained myself incorrectly.  On the Hyperfocal technique, I understand exactly how it works, what I need to get used to is actually calculating distances.  So I do need to take a minute or two to understand visually 2,3,10 m are. Especially if I shoot wide open. Less so if I step down.

On the analysis part, I am not an obsessive guy, and you can see on my own pictures (website on the first post) that most of my pictures are more visual than technical.  This being said, in order to take the spontaneous picture I visualize in my mind I do need to understand how the different lenses and bodies I shoot with behave. This would be on any equipment.

 Because of the mechanical nature of Leica M that is even more true.  If I give myself a minute to take each shot it is less dramatic, but on fast shooting, I like to go back and see how the lens performed with the light I had and the settings I selected.

I don't like doing that on the LCD while shooting as it is cumbersome and distracting and I rather spend the time shooting without too much analysis.  So when I get to my desk and start looking at a pic I like to understand what I did right or wrong technically so I can learn the new camera functions and lens behavior.

I also will often take the same shot with different apertures and speed settings with any new lens so I can test its limits and strengths, I find that exercise somewhat less useful if there is no metadata to reference (back in the day or when shooting film I may use a notebook)

Once the equipment and I are in synch then it is a much less needed process.

I would not venture to determine what equipment I shoot or not with based on my willingness to understand it.  That seems like a very lazy approach.  It almost implies that to shoot Leica one has to be careless or unconcerned with some technical aspects.  I do not need perfect focus or perfect anything from any equipment.  I just need to understand it and be comfortable with it so it speaks for me.

Hope this makes more sense.

 

Thank you.

Edited June 10, 2022 by S Maclean
typo

[S Maclean]

12 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

You shouldn't have to press the button to attach the lens - if that's what you're doing. You only press the button to remove it.

Yep, I got that now. with the new lenses, it is smoother.  For whatever reason, the 50 is just a little tighter.

I'm getting used to it.

 

Thank you.

[satijntje]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb charlesphoto99:

Lockups - welcome to the world of Leica. Sadly normal, though I've had a lot less with my 10, 10-R than I did with my M9 (constant). sounds like the 11 is a return to the 9 in more than just image look. 

I never had lock ups with M8, M8.2, M9, M10 an now neither with my M10-R.
The only M with lock ups was my M240

[S Maclean]

Thank you @Mikeal, that is very helpful.

50 mm is pretty much my go-to, I am very used to guessing on that lens when it comes to framing.  Even at close range. Focus not so much becasue I mostly have shot auto on street shots. Manual in studio.

35 mm is actually not my default by a long shot, seeing my own library I was surprised to see how much I skipped 35 and shot ultra-wide and up to 28 and then 50 and 80/100.

I am trying to get used to the 35mm by using a prime where I have no choice, but I keep feeling like I'll end up selling it. I seems like I like to either go in a little bit more or really get close on an ultra-wide and give a very contextualized but emotional view (16-18-21...maybe 28)

The 35 is exceptional because of it's neutrality, it doesn't affect the subject in any way...that should be perfect but my brain kind of doesn't want to leave it alone and wants a "perspective"  or a POV on either direction.

I have a Voigtlander 28 coming as a gift from my brother who doesn't use it.  I also got the Tri-Elmer 16-18-21 but just returned it and will probably just get the SE 21mm. Still researching that as I like super wide for indoor and crowd shots and I need a faster lens.  The Tri - Elmer was fantastic outdoors with light but really struggled a bit (for me) indoors with lower (not really low) light.

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by S Maclean
Typo

[SrMi]

Note that hyperfocal distance markings on the lens are not that useful as they have been computed using a circle of confusion (30 microns) which was defined for the image quality expectations of a snapshooter using the films available before World War II (K. Fleischer).

[S Maclean]

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1 minute ago, SrMi said:

Note that hyperfocal distance markings on the lens are not that useful as they have been computed using a circle of confusion (30 microns) which was defined for the image quality expectations of a snapshooter using the films available before World War II (K. Fleischer).

Interesting. Again this is why I have to spend some time with the equipment to understand its behavior in real life.

Thank you 

[Jeff S]

19 minutes ago, S Maclean said:

Interesting. Again this is why I have to spend some time with the equipment to understand its behavior in real life.

Thank you 

With digital, just stop down one (or two) stops more than lens distance markings indicate, as a rough guide. Or, if you have tabbed lenses, practice will tell you where to position the tab, before even looking through the VF, for focusing at different subject distances.  

The M11 frame lines are optimized for subjects at a distance of 2m. More, or less, will  be included in the final output depending on closer or farther subject distances.  That said, an M is not designed for critical framing, at least not via the RF. 

Before all else, be sure your eyes are corrected for any issues, especially astigmatism.  (The focus patch is set at a virtual distance of 2m.)

Nothing beats real life experience.  A lot depends on your output goals. If you print, you’ll learn what works and what doesn’t… without need to obsess.

Jeff

[SrMi]

2 minutes ago, Mikeal said:

This is what happened with me (before Leica). I shot only 35mm for 2 years. It was my only lens. I ended up vowing never to return to it. I loved it while I had it, it was my only lens so it made sense. The 35mm is neither here nor there. And that’s also the problem. It’s not narrow enough and not wide enough. It can be perfect and very frustrating. It taught me that I better go back to 50mm and then 28mm ( I tried 24, too wide. I tried 85, too narrow). 28mm seems to be the perfect companion to 50mm. 

Now I can see a 35mm photo as soon as it shows up. It’s obvious. It’s has a very boring aesthetic to it. Very bland. 

Yea it’s never 100%. It’s more like a “guide line” than a “frame line” to me. 

It is the photographer's fault if an image is bland at 35mm. 

BTW, Elliot Erwitt's favorite M lenses are 35mm, 50mm, and 135mm (link).

[S Maclean]

38 minutes ago, SrMi said:

It is the photographer's fault if an image is bland at 35mm. 

BTW, Elliot Erwitt's favorite M lenses are 35mm, 50mm, and 135mm (link).

This is true for everything; Which is why I'm trying to get more used to it.  It is, though, a more neutral lens, that's one of the things I feel is great about it.  

Some of the most amazing images I have seen are 35 mm.....just none that I have taken. 

[SrMi]

12 minutes ago, S Maclean said:

This is true for everything; Which is why I'm trying to get more used to it.  It is, though, a more neutral lens, that's one of the things I feel is great about it.  

Some of the most amazing images I have seen are 35 mm.....just none that I have taken. 

Yes, the lens choice is very personal. Some work better for some people. That is why it does not make sense to copy the lens choices of other great photographers. 

[S Maclean]

Very true, specially for seasoned photographers. But for less experienced or less accomplished photographers like me, inspiration is a great form of motivation. After all one never knows what one doesnt know until we experience things for ourselves.

Edited June 10, 2022 by S Maclean

[Segal]

16 hours ago, M11 for me said:

YOu're lucky 😁

I thought actually the same as you: All these stories are typical Forum stuff. Until last Monday it happened:

My camera that I own since January - just out of nothing - decided to restart. The mode it came up with was just like the first start of the new camera. A nice animated graphics was shown followed by the prompt to enter the language. . . Immediately I switched off, took out battery and all the usual things . . . But always the same: enter language. Finally I gave into the process and eventually the camery was back ready to shoot. But not perfect: All my profile was gone. No favourites in the menu, button functions all back to "reset camera". Exactly like a new camera. It took me an hour (maybe a bit less to ve frank) to have all my settings back as I wanted to have them: Favourite menu, wheels function plus all the other things that can be customised.

Since then it works again.

But clearly: A camera might be a complex thing. Stll this should not happen. 

Sorry to hear that. Yeah, modern cameras are computers with lenses, so they're bound to freeze and reboot every now and then. I was just lucky so far, I guess

On that note - Leica M11 makes you to take out the battery every time you want to remove the SD card, essentially forcing a reboot of the camera. Maybe this is their way of dealing with memory leaks and other compounding errors

[S Maclean]

57 minutes ago, Mikeal said:

 

If Elliot Erwitt inspires you, then you’re looking at mostly 50mm photos. It’s what he used most of the time. You can see how much story and context you can tell by using a 50mm. Elliot Erwitt photographs is what people show to newbies to end the “50mm is too narrow” myth. 
 

Of course he used moderate wide and telephoto lenses. He didn’t shoot for himself. It was his job. If he ended up in a village somewhere inside a small pub, shooting a 50mm would be rather uncomfortable. 

I’ll let Erwitt speak for himself. 
 

Quote (directly from his book “Personal Exposures): 

“Simplicity. I have a large arsenal of equipment for my professional work, but for my informal pictures I mostly use a 50-mm lens, sometimes a 90-mm. I work within a narrow range. I like to work with only one kind of film at a time, because I get confused easily. When I mix films, I often make a mistake and shoot with the wrong one. Tri-X is the most useful to me. I don’t like to make tests. I like for other photographers to make the tests and give me the results. I believe them.”

 

Nowhere in that paragraph does he say “35mm” although he did have 35mm lenses. Like he said he has an arsenal. He literally said he could open a camera store with all his equipment. So when he refers so other lenses (other than his 50mm which is what he used), he is talking about bringing equipment out for his work. Like I said. 
 

35mm you’ll end up selling for sure. 50mm really is the king of lenses. I’m just throwing out there I fell in love with the 28mm as a companion lens. Can’t beat it for family and intimate photos. 
 

“Personal Exposures” is basically all the photos you know from Elliott Erwitt. Most of them 50mm. His PREFERRED lens. 

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Thank you,

I'll look for this book.m 50 and 90...natural for me.  

[LocalHero1953]

8 hours ago, Segal said:

Sorry to hear that. Yeah, modern cameras are computers with lenses, so they're bound to freeze and reboot every now and then. I was just lucky so far, I guess

On that note - Leica M11 makes you to take out the battery every time you want to remove the SD card, essentially forcing a reboot of the camera. Maybe this is their way of dealing with memory leaks and other compounding errors

Hmmm - the only camera I ever had that did a freeze on me was the M240. That was a recognised fault that Leica sorted with a firmware upgrade. I could make a long list of Leica and other cameras that have neither frozen on me nor spontaneously rebooted. This is appearing to be an occasional characteristic of the M11, though it's difficult to tell just from forum reports how common it is. 

[SrMi]

16 hours ago, Segal said:

Sorry to hear that. Yeah, modern cameras are computers with lenses, so they're bound to freeze and reboot every now and then. I was just lucky so far, I guess

On that note - Leica M11 makes you to take out the battery every time you want to remove the SD card, essentially forcing a reboot of the camera. Maybe this is their way of dealing with memory leaks and other compounding errors

Turning the camera off also reboots the camera. I always turn off my cameras before removing the SD card.

Edited June 11, 2022 by SrMi