Lens Profiles for CV 35mm F2 APO and 50mm F2 APO Lanthars?

[bherman01545]

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Any recommendations on which Leica lens profiles to select on an M10-R or should I turn Lens Detection=Off and make the corrections in post?

[a.noctilux]

I'd say depending on what kind of expectations you have in "corrections".

In your place, as I have done, take two "same" pics with and without telling the M which lens is in use.

After the results you will see if "corrected" (with the closest manual setting) is worth to worry about.

Manual set the lens to "apo" 35/50 would not be possible, so choosing the 35 or 50 closest "non apo" would do.

 

[goodbokeh]

For my CV 50/2 APO Lanthar & M10M I turn the Lens Detection off and use the lens profile in Adobe Camera Raw made for the lens. Unless a person is going to rely on the JPEG output I just don't see the logic in using the profiles from a Leica lens that is a different optical design.

[goodbokeh]

5 minutes ago, M10RUser said:

EXIF data. 

You have a point on lens mm EXIF being provided. My Adobe Raw lens profiles do a noticeable job on correcting distortions on all my M lenses though. Some like that, some don't.

[goodbokeh]

I do my raw work on either my 27 iMac or 16 MacBook Pro. Adobe Camera Raw has the exact lens profiles for all. That's what I'm used to with my other camera/lens makes, so I stay consistent. But opinions vary. Some like to do their own corrections, others like to go with the optics as they come unchanged. 

[Camaro5]

I just leave my M10-R on auto lens detection.  It selects the 35mm APO Summicron which can be changed to the 35 APO-Lanthar in Lightroom.   Once that is selected LR does a little correction and all is good.  For the color profile I generally use the built-in M10-R profile or Adobe Standard.  

[Adam Bonn]

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The camera can’t automatically select a lens profile unless the lens has a 6 bit code. On Zeiss/CV lenses this can be applied with a sharpie pretty successfully in the channel/groove that they helpfully machine into the flange.

I always sharpie code my non Leica lens, simply so that I can find pictures taken by them in my catalogue I just have to remember that I don’t own an Elmarit 21/2.8, it’s really a Zeiss!!!!

If desired, once I’ve imported the files, I filter by the ‘fake’ Leica name, then apply the adobe lens profile (which I made into a preset) for the actual lens used. I can’t be bothered to correct the exif info to Zeiss, Voigtlander etc when exporting files.

AFAIK… the native Leica lens profiles correct only for vignetting, colour shift, not for distortion.

The need for using adobe lens profiles IMHO varies on the lens… the summicron 50 is basically distortion free, the Zeiss planar 50 isn’t. The Summarit 35 has a very noticeable distortion, the CV 35/1.7 doesn’t but does have a very noticeable vignette.

 

 

[Camaro5]

6 hours ago, M10RUser said:

There is no 35 or 50 APO profile in the camera. What it’s selecting is the 35 Summicron ASPH. 

Yes, you're correct but in any case, it doesn't matter when you can quickly change it in Lightroom.  

[Alberti]

3 hours ago, Adam Bonn said:

AFAIK… the native Leica lens profiles correct only for vignetting, colour shift, not for distortion

I have found big disparities between SOOC-JPG and the .DNG.

There is huge amount of barrel / cushion distortion ‘detected and corrected’, in the M10-R depending maybe on lens. I have not made examples (needs abrick wall or such). I expect that in-camera profiles are used. 

[Adam Bonn]

39 minutes ago, Alberti said:

I have found big disparities between SOOC-JPG and the .DNG.

There is huge amount of barrel / cushion distortion ‘detected and corrected’, in the M10-R depending maybe on lens. I have not made examples (needs abrick wall or such). I expect that in-camera profiles are used. 

Maybe that’s an M10R thing then? (Might explain why m11 users are struggling with lens profiles too… if Leica think adobe are applying them and adobe think Leica are applying them)

[Adam Bonn]

2 hours ago, M10RUser said:

It has a small amount of barrel distortion

How tiny? What’s the correction amount on the PS/LR slider?

and which lens? The regular cron (in which case which version?) the APO cron or do you mean your APO Lanthar?

[Alberti]

It is interesting you mention a BSI camera - I have a BSI sensor too in a camera, and there it is worse at times . . . unprocessed, with the corners looking like a pancake. For instance my M-Rokkor 40mm F2 can be wildly weird, I have it select a 35mm summicron lens.  But I just avoid, not study it. Better to keep my mouth shut then.

[Adam Bonn]

Post error, forum has no delete 🙄

 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Adam Bonn

[Adam Bonn]

6 hours ago, M10RUser said:

I brought this up to you before so I’ll bring it up again. It’s very frustrating when people come in and they haven’t read the posts and then comment like they’re obviously not following the conversation. 
 

I am talking about applying the 50f2 Summicron profile in the camera (the modern 50f2 Summicron V5) to the Voigtlander APO-Lanthar 50f2. 
 

someone said the 50f2 summicron has no distortion. I corrected this and said that there is a small amount of barrel distortion. 
 

Keep up with the conversation and it will go easier. 

So let me get this correct in my little head.

The type V cron profile applied in camera perfectly corrects the distortion that the CV Lanthar has and this carries through to the Leica RAW file?

(BTW Tiny and small are fairly synonymous words really.)

Also, what was the thread you tagged me in that doesn’t appear to exist any more?

 

 

[Adam Bonn]

11 minutes ago, GrittyPhoto said:

He does have a point that you keep misquoting what he says. 
 

he said it corrects for vignetting. And that the summicron has a small amount of distortion. he posted a video of how the 50f2 summicron profile corrects the APO50f2 VL. 

he never said the summicron profile corrects “perfectly for distortion” for the 50 Apo-Lanthar . You said that. 
 

When you apply the summicron profile in camera, the raw file opens with the corrections for the 50 summicron. 

but then I don’t know why anyone would do that. You would just select the corrections for the APO-Lanthar 50F2. This profile will correct it the way it’s supposed to, however, if one edits on an iPad, then the summicron profile helps with the vignetting and a little bit of barrel distortion correction it’s better than no corrections at all. Maybe this is the whole point  

i believe the dude blocked you at this point. It’s pointless to continue this discussion. not sure where you’re going with this now? 

 I said that AKAIK the in camera profiles correct only for vignetting and colour shading and he mentioned distortion correction.

Agree that I shouldn’t have added the word perfectly 

When I woke up there was a notification that he had tagged me in a thread called ‘what is the LUF gang and who are the members’ but this thread seems to be removed (or at least clicking on the notification doesn’t take me there)

Agree it’s not going anywhere.

Maybe he’s gone? He got a bit of a mod warning about conduct in some other thread about Will Smith’s wife (I’m not making that up)

FWIW… I’ve since googled cron distortion and at under half a percent the internet deems it to be basically undetectable in photos.

Again FWIW but I code my non Leica lenses just so I can search for them in LR and apply the correct adobe Zeiss/CV profile en masse (I have presets that only apply the lens profile, so for example I filter by emarit 21, which for me is ZM21, then apply the profile to the search results and as all it does is apply the profile it won’t mess with my import preset.)

That for me is enough reason to code the lens or else I’d be searching through ‘unknown lens’ tags

[Adam Bonn]

56 minutes ago, GrittyPhoto said:

The lens tip distortion test was posted. Like it was said. It has a small amount of barrel distortion. When you asked how small, it was -0.47%. That’s all there is to it. 

I think this is the end of this conversation. Profiles correct. They correct because there’s something to correct. If there was nothing to correct there would be no profile. 

if you edit in your computer then apply whatever profile on the list for your lens. If you edit on iPad then the next best thing usually does the job fairly well. in this case the summicron profile.

that’s all. 

Ultimately my query was around whether or not the in camera profiles correct for distortion in RAW

I don’t believe they do with a 35 ‘rit and the M9/240/10 and I say this because I have that lens and own/have owned those cameras.

People are saying that the M10R does correct for distortion in RAW. That’s an improvement then.

That’s all for me really. Apparently the M10R incorporates distortion correction into the DNG. Good.

The Lanthar by all accounts is a very strong optical performer, so is the cron. I’m not surprised that using a profile designed for a lens that requires little correction works acceptably well with a different lens that requires little correction.

If you use say a Planar 50 (which has tangible distortion) then the cron profile will do very little (and why should it) and again I know this as I have this lens.

[Adam Bonn]

4 minutes ago, GrittyPhoto said:

what messes me up is I sometimes forget to change it and I get 50 APO with the 28f2 summicron profile applied. 

Yeah me too, that’s when I made the effort to sharpie code the CV/Zeiss lenses. Now the camera auto codes them, not that I really care, I just want the lens FL in the exif.