Black paint M6 TTL 0.85 Dragon: light meter failure? 11 April 2022

[Capuccino-Muffin]

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Back around 2005-ish there was a lot of talk about M6 meters failing in the future. Can’t remember why exactly. This was one of the MP’s silent upgrade because back then, the MP was disparaged as just being a cosmetical change, which it wasn’t... except for the first batch,  which indeed, were M6 with different top plates. Discerning them is easy: they all have the M6 door which are incomptible with the rest of the MP line (electronics won’t read correctly).

Edited April 13, 2022 by Capuccino-Muffin

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[TheGodParticle/Hari]

16 hours ago, grahamc said:

If I went on an extended trip (we are planning one) I think it would be the TTL that gets taken.   It's slightly larger form (than my M6J, MP) gives it a bit of a tank-like feel in comparison.  While I don't always enjoy that aspect it does mean it's probably turned out to be my most used body - Because it gets taken anywhere where I'm not able to be careful with the camera....eg at gigs.  I'm really enjoy the TTL flash also .    

Great all-rounder and think it would be the best one to take - also my cheapest if anything went wrong, which is also probably why it gets a lot of daily use. 

That’s a beautiful camera, do you have matching titanium lenses?

I’m now curious to hear which other film bodies you have if you say this one is the cheapest 

[TheGodParticle/Hari]

13 hours ago, wattsy said:

The bodies are physically the same size but there are some small differences such as the locking shutter button which might necessitate modifications to the top plate. It would presumably be easier to put the dragon top plate (including the VF), rear door and bottom plate onto the M7 body than shoehorn the latter's innards into the M6TTL?

Hmmmm it does sound more plausible to stick the M6 externals into the M7.

Let’s see what Leica come back with, this option could be worth pursuing.

Thank you for the suggestion, I found a M7 0.85 body in the region and made an offer already.

Best case scenario, Leica fix the dragon and I add the M7 0.85 to the collection. Worst case scenario, I get Leica to make the cosmetic changes and have a franken M7 Dragon 😄 

[TheGodParticle/Hari]

11 hours ago, davidmknoble said:

I have had old Nikon F2’s completely overhauled (1970’s bodies) and one common issue there is the contact plate under the shutter dial.  It gets moved so much that the contacts wear and the most used shutter speeds don’t meter all the time, or intermittently.  I would think a well cared for body that is used a lot in it’s life would have reasonably sound circuit boards, but contacts that wear out.

It will be interesting to see what the techs say.

Thank you for sharing your experience with the F2’s

I’m hoping it’s a loose wire or dust in the contacts that can easily be fixed

These bodies have skyrocketed in price and it would be a pain to get another one, knowing this problem can happen to the next one too  

[TheGodParticle/Hari]

10 hours ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

Back around 2005-ish there was a lot of talk about M6 meters failing in the future. Can’t remember why exactly. This was one of the MP’s silent upgrade because back then, the MP was disparaged as just being a cosmetical change, which it wasn’t... except for the first batch,  which indeed, were M6 with different top plates. Discerning them is easy: they all have the M6 door which are incomptible with the rest of the MP line (electronics won’t read correctly).

Whoever started the talk had a prophetic vision of the impending TTL problems 

I didn’t know the first batch of MP’s were M6’s with different top plates, is there a reliable source for this information? 

[grahamc]

23 minutes ago, TheGodParticle/Hari said:

That’s a beautiful camera, do you have matching titanium lenses?

I’m now curious to hear which other film bodies you have if you say this one is the cheapest 

Hi Hari 

Yes I really love the titan TTL, the brown leather is really different and looks great aswell as being very hard-wearing.  I have the Titan 35:1.4 v32 'pre-asph' to pair with it.

My other film bodies are MP A La Carte (Black Paint, No top script) & M6J.  Curiously the M6J is thinner than my MP, which I really like - not sure if the M3's are slightly thinner than M6/MP also but I really like the form factor - it gives the camera a quick and 'zippy' feel

I have another set that I always don't consider when talking about my cameras because it's the only one I keep in the box unused - it's a M6 black paint Millennium with matching serial 35:2 ASPH BP and 50:1.4 v2 BP    Stunning camera and so tempting to use but considering it's a set and I have these other bodies (and some nice lenses) I think it best to keep that set in the 'new old stock' condition that I bought it in 

 

Edited April 13, 2022 by grahamc

[madNbad]

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In 1999, a friend invited me to meet him in Las Vegas for the Photo Marketers Association show. While wandering around, after meeting Pete Turner and asked him if he was really created by the Nikon marketing team, we stepped into the Leica booth and there was the Black Lacquer M6 TTL in its glossy black paint beauty. Twelve years later, at the height of the Great Recession, KEH had one that lingered on the site for weeks and finally one morning when I got to work, I called them. It arrived unused, in the presentation box with all of the documentation. One of two thousand made for the start of a new century, harkening back before the black chrome and zinc top plates. I called it my million dollar Leica. It went  back to the factory for the finder upgrade and the other assorted minutiae like shutter seals. Leica NJ sent me the black paint control levers for the MP and DAG still had the black dots.The deck on our house was falling apart to the point where we had stepped through several boards. We had most of the money to replace it but were several thousand dollars short. The Millennium went to a local shop on consignment with a note from the salesperson to the other staff not to handle it because it was a special camera. The day it was available for sale, they had multiple offers. It’s disheartening some of the best looking and most user friendly M cameras Leica ever made suffer from the shadow of the possibility of meter failure. I do hope the factory has a work around and can keep the meter functioning. The Millennium’s, Dragons and the other black paint TTL’s shouldn’t be relegated to the “sorry it can’t be fixed” category.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, TheGodParticle/Hari said:

I didn’t know the first batch of MP’s were M6’s with different top plates, is there a reliable source for this information? 

I also never heard that. So I googled and found this (but it is more speculation than fact):

 

[Matlock]

4 hours ago, Studienkamera said:

I also never heard that. So I googled and found this (but it is more speculation than fact):

 

Highly speculative given that the M6 was discontinued in 1999 to be replaced by the M6TTL (a very different animal) which, in turn, was discontinued in 2002. The MP was introduced in 2003.

[Capuccino-Muffin]

47 minutes ago, Matlock said:

Highly speculative given that the M6 was discontinued in 1999 to be replaced by the M6TTL (a very different animal) which, in turn, was discontinued in 2002. The MP was introduced in 2003.

What wxactly is “highly speculative” about products from one same company sharing parts?

You really believe that the M-A, for instance, has its very own focus Roller not found in the MP? Or body shell? Or...  or...

[madNbad]

It’s speculative because the hallmark of the MP, the brass top plate, wasn’t available until the black paint TTLs’ of 2000. A very different top plate and not at all in line with the design of the new camera. The very early MP did use parts like the rear door from the TTL line.

[Matlock]

1 hour ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

What wxactly is “highly speculative” about products from one same company sharing parts?

You really believe that the M-A, for instance, has its very own focus Roller not found in the MP? Or body shell? Or...  or...

Parts can only be shared if they are compatible, The M6 was discontinued 4 years before the MP was introduced and the M6TTL which came between was a totally different camera. Comparisons between the M-A and MP are irrelevant as they are the same camera aside from the meter (or lack of).

[Capuccino-Muffin]

Let’s be clear here: the early MP were M6 with a MP top plate. There’s nothing speculative about it.

Take a M6 and a early MP and open them up and see fot yourself.

[Matlock]

On 4/15/2022 at 4:10 AM, Capuccino-Muffin said:

Let’s be clear here: the early MP were M6 with a MP top plate. There’s nothing speculative about it.

Take a M6 and a early MP and open them up and see fot yourself.

And open up a modern MP and you will see the same as the body castings have not changed the cameras, however, have.

[Huss]

On 4/14/2022 at 8:10 PM, Capuccino-Muffin said:

Let’s be clear here: the early MP were M6 with a MP top plate. There’s nothing speculative about it.

Take a M6 and a early MP and open them up and see fot yourself.

The first, and all, MPs had the new anti flare finder that the M6 did not have.  It also had brass gears while the M6 had steel and plastic.  The early MP also had the new meter with the 3 LEDs like in the M6 TTL.  The early MP also had the straight M3 style rewind knob, like w all MPs. The only thing that was carried over was the film door with ISO dial.

[Capuccino-Muffin]

On 4/16/2022 at 1:20 PM, Huss said:

The first, and all, MPs had the new anti flare finder that the M6 did not have.  It also had brass gears while the M6 had steel and plastic.  The early MP also had the new meter with the 3 LEDs like in the M6 TTL.  The early MP also had the straight M3 style rewind knob, like w all MPs. The only thing that was carried over was the film door with ISO dial.

M6 door with all the M6 electronics. 

[Matlock]

43 minutes ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

M6 door with all the M6 electronics. 

No. upgraded electronics to go with the new meter.

[Huss]

On 4/18/2022 at 6:54 AM, Capuccino-Muffin said:

M6 door with all the M6 electronics. 

How do you think the electronics are the same when the meter and the meter readout in the viewfinder is different? 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Capuccino-Muffin]

Old door is only compatible with old electronics. I’m not sure what’s so difficult to understand here. 

[Matlock]

1 hour ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

Old door is only compatible with old electronics. I’m not sure what’s so difficult to understand here. 

Sadly it is you that has the difficulty. The early MPs are NOT M6s with an MP top plate, end of story.