Black paint M6 TTL 0.85 Dragon: light meter failure? 11 April 2022

[Capuccino-Muffin]

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2 minutes ago, Matlock said:

Sadly it is you that has the difficulty. The early MPs are NOT M6s with an MP top plate, end of story.

But they are MP with an M6 door which is only compatible with M6 electronics.

end of story.

[Matlock]

43 minutes ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

But they are MP with an M6 door which is only compatible with M6 electronics.

end of story.

As had been stated in other posts, M6 doors can be found on a variety of MPs from several batches, not just the first ones. Also the doors of the M6 and M6TTL are the same but the cameras have very different metering systems. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Matlock

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[madNbad]

I think we’ve been down this path a few times:

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/265739-mp-vs-m6/

[Capuccino-Muffin]

3 hours ago, Matlock said:

As had been stated in other posts, M6 doors can be found on a variety of MPs from several batches, not just the first ones. Also the doors of the M6 and M6TTL are the same but the cameras have very different metering systems. 

Even today, if Leica finds an NEW OLD STOCK M6 metering module in its facility, it will slap it onto a new MP, with the corresponding door. 
We’vE seen this happening already.

And the real question: Why wouldn’t they? It’s their product, their creation, their investment, their thing.

[madNbad]

Being the internet, no reason not to stir the pot a little. If we extrapolate from Capuccino-Muffins stand the MP is actually a slightly modified M6, which for the sake of argument, let’s call it the M6.2. Many actual users of the M6 TTL love it’s design. It’s very user friendly with the little details like the arrows moving in the same direction as the shutter speed dial. A dial that could be adjusted with your index finger with the camera at eye level. If Leica hadn’t given in and stepped back, they would have continued to produce and evolve the TTL to the next generation of film cameras or as it’s called, the M7. If the development money spent on bringing the MP to market and had been invested into the evolution of the TTL/ electronic shutter M bodies, what would we have today? It wasn’t the M5 that derailed Leica, it was the over investment in the R series, which was never serious competition to Canon or Nikon and bleeding off buyers with the CL. Like the M5, the TTL cameras were a step forward in design. I wish they had continued instead of worrying about the possibility of a dead meter. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by madNbad

[Matlock]

11 hours ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

Even today, if Leica finds an NEW OLD STOCK M6 metering module in its facility, it will slap it onto a new MP, with the corresponding door. 
We’vE seen this happening already.

And the real question: Why wouldn’t they? It’s their product, their creation, their investment, their thing.

Fully agree, but it does completely destroy your argument that the early MPs were simply an M6 with a MP top plate.; The M6, M6TTL and MP share a common chassis but with very different electronics/meters. I think it is about time to put this thread to bed.

[grahamc]

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On 4/14/2022 at 9:17 AM, TheGodParticle/Hari said:

 

Let’s see what Leica come back with 

 

Hi Hari

Any news from leica regarding your camera ?  I guess not as you would probably have posted an update .

I thought about your situation today when I saw a TTL for sale locally with a non-functioning light meter.  It didn't state how extensively they had tried to fix it though or whether they had access to / advice from specialist repairers that are often mentioned in these forums (or Leica of course)

As a TTL fan I'd love to know / hope you have it repaired.  The 'TTL meters will become unrepairable" myth has to my knowledge not had much first hand evidence here, in the time I've been researching at least 

Cheers

G 

Edited April 21, 2022 by grahamc

[Matlock]

11 hours ago, madNbad said:

Being the internet, no reason not to stir the pot a little. If we extrapolate from Capuccino-Muffins stand the MP is actually a slightly modified M6, which for the sake of argument, let’s call it the M6.2. Many actual users of the M6 TTL love it’s design. It’s very user friendly with the little details like the arrows moving in the same direction as the shutter speed dial. A dial that could be adjusted with your index finger with the camera at eye level. If Leica hadn’t given in and stepped back, they would have continued to produce and evolve the TTL to the next generation of film cameras or as it’s called, the M7. If the development money spent on bringing the MP to market and had been invested into the evolution of the TTL/ electronic shutter M bodies, what would we have today? It wasn’t the M5 that derailed Leica, it was the over investment in the R series, which was never serious competition to Canon or Nikon and bleeding off buyers with the CL. Like the M5, the TTL cameras were a step forward in design. I wish they had continued instead of worrying about the possibility of a dead meter. 

Some good points there. My first New Leica was an M6TTL which I still have and use regularly. I bought an MP but was not keen and so I traded it for a new MP3 which is a superb piece of retro design. I then bought an early  used M7 which developed a rather strange fault with the shutter speed dial. I returned it to Leica who cleared the fault and, of course, brought it fully up to date. I now have what is, in effect, a brand new M7 which is my most used film Leica (along with my IIId).

[Matlock]

2 hours ago, grahamc said:

 The 'TTL meters will become unrepairable" myth has to my knowledge not had much first hand evidence here, in the time I've been researching at least 

 

Myth indeed.

 

[davidmknoble]

Isn’t it interesting that we are talking about electronics that need repair?  I love using my MP’s - great viewfinders, solid rewind mechanism and I use my index finger to turn the shutter speed while at my eye. 

But what I really love is using my M3 with current leica lenses and it still works.  Imagine a camera easily over 60 years old, and a screwdriver and a little oil keep it running perfectly.  That is cool.

[TheGodParticle/Hari]

6 hours ago, grahamc said:

Hi Hari

Any news from leica regarding your camera ?  I guess not as you would probably have posted an update .

I thought about your situation today when I saw a TTL for sale locally with a non-functioning light meter.  It didn't state how extensively they had tried to fix it though or whether they had access to / advice from specialist repairers that are often mentioned in these forums (or Leica of course)

As a TTL fan I'd love to know / hope you have it repaired.  The 'TTL meters will become unrepairable" myth has to my knowledge not had much first hand evidence here, in the time I've been researching at least 

Cheers

G 

Hi Graham!

Leica will service my camera which will fix the problem for now, but they are explicit in saying should there be a defect in the Exposure Meter or Flash Control, during or after the repair, they cannot fix it and can neither offer a Guarantee or a Warranty as the spare parts are not in supply anymore.  

The exact reply is below as official first hand evidence:

 

Hallo Hari,
sollte während oder nach der Reparatur ein Defekt an der
Kameraelektronik (Belichtungsmesser, Blitzsteuerung)
auftreten, können wir hierfür leider keine Garantie oder
Gewährleistung übernehmen, da die erforderlichen
Ersatzteile/Leiterbänder nicht mehr lieferbar sind.
Bitte dies zu beachten. 

 

 

[JMF]

9 minutes ago, TheGodParticle/Hari said:

Hi Graham!

Leica will service my camera which will fix the problem for now, but they are explicit in saying should there be a defect in the Exposure Meter or Flash Control, during or after the repair, they cannot fix it and can neither offer a Guarantee or a Warranty as the spare parts are not in supply anymore.  

The exact reply is below as official first hand evidence:

 

Hallo Hari,
sollte während oder nach der Reparatur ein Defekt an der
Kameraelektronik (Belichtungsmesser, Blitzsteuerung)
auftreten, können wir hierfür leider keine Garantie oder
Gewährleistung übernehmen, da die erforderlichen
Ersatzteile/Leiterbänder nicht mehr lieferbar sind.
Bitte dies zu beachten. 

 

 

Hello all,

I had two M6 TTL Millenium ; a regular 0,72 and a 0,85 NHS and both had shutter problems with a similar uneven exposure across the frame at higher speeds. 
Leica Germany returned them un repaired with no warranty .

Ended up selling both at a loss .

I am happy with my classic M6s and MPs .

Best regards,

Jean-Marc

[Matlock]

33 minutes ago, TheGodParticle/Hari said:

Hi Graham!

Leica will service my camera which will fix the problem for now, but they are explicit in saying should there be a defect in the Exposure Meter or Flash Control, during or after the repair, they cannot fix it and can neither offer a Guarantee or a Warranty as the spare parts are not in supply anymore.  

The exact reply is below as official first hand evidence:

 

Hallo Hari,
sollte während oder nach der Reparatur ein Defekt an der
Kameraelektronik (Belichtungsmesser, Blitzsteuerung)
auftreten, können wir hierfür leider keine Garantie oder
Gewährleistung übernehmen, da die erforderlichen
Ersatzteile/Leiterbänder nicht mehr lieferbar sind.
Bitte dies zu beachten. 

 

 

Glad you got the camera fixed. As to the lack of spares, this is a common feature with most makes of camera, spares don't last forever. However it is not something to lose sleep over as many old cameras, of all makes, are still functioning after years of use. If you have a M6TTL just keep using it, at least if the meter or TTL flash ceases to operate the camera is still full functionable in manual mode.

[TheGodParticle/Hari]

18 hours ago, JMF said:

Hello all,

I had two M6 TTL Millenium ; a regular 0,72 and a 0,85 NHS and both had shutter problems with a similar uneven exposure across the frame at higher speeds. 
Leica Germany returned them un repaired with no warranty .

Ended up selling both at a loss .

I am happy with my classic M6s and MPs .

Best regards,

Jean-Marc

Nice to see a reply from you my friend 

No plans of picking up an MP3 / M3J or Safari MP? 

[TheGodParticle/Hari]

On 4/14/2022 at 1:33 AM, grahamc said:
I have another set that I always don't consider when talking about my cameras because it's the only one I keep in the box unused - it's a M6 black paint Millennium with matching serial 35:2 ASPH BP and 50:1.4 v2 BP    Stunning camera and so tempting to use but considering it's a set and I have these other bodies (and some nice lenses) I think it best to keep that set in the 'new old stock' condition that I bought it in 

That’s lovely. If you ever consider selling the set, do let me know. I’ll fly over to you, pay cash and buy drinks the whole evening 🍻

[TheGodParticle/Hari]

On 4/14/2022 at 1:33 AM, grahamc said:

I have another set that I always don't consider when talking about my cameras because it's the only one I keep in the box unused - it's a M6 black paint Millennium with matching serial 35:2 ASPH BP and 50:1.4 v2 BP    Stunning camera and so tempting to use but considering it's a set and I have these other bodies (and some nice lenses) I think it best to keep that set in the 'new old stock' condition that I bought it in 

 

That’s lovely. If you ever consider selling the set, do let me know.I’ll fly over to you, pay cash and buy drinks the whole evening 🍻

[grahamc]

4 minutes ago, TheGodParticle/Hari said:

That’s lovely. If you ever consider selling the set, do let me know. I’ll fly over to you, pay cash and buy drinks the whole evening 🍻

I’ll certainly let you know ! I was going to offer up the innards as a doner but I think we both know that would be a really silly decision  😂🤔

[TheGodParticle/Hari]

2 hours ago, grahamc said:

I’ll certainly let you know ! I was going to offer up the innards as a doner but I think we both know that would be a really silly decision  😂🤔

If you let me have the set, I can certainly swap the innards between the dragon and the Millennium

[grahamc]

3 minutes ago, TheGodParticle/Hari said:

If you let me have the set, I can certainly swap the innards between the dragon and the Millennium

I am praying even harder now for Leica to fix your Dragon:D 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[TheGodParticle/Hari]

3 hours ago, grahamc said:

I am praying even harder now for Leica to fix your Dragon:D 

I’m serious 😁

If you want to let the kit go, I’d be happy to take it off your hands