Number of rolls in a Tank? (D76 @ 1:1)

[grahamc]

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Hello film friends

I have only just started home development and am using D76 diluted 1:1, and Tri-X 

I have 2 tanks:

• a steel 2 reel tank ....and
• a Paterson 3 reel tank.

I read on another forum that ... "if using 1:1 developer, it is best to only develop 1 film in a 2 reel tank, and 2 films in a 4 reel tank, (or increase development time) due to the decreased strength of the developer".

Would love to get some thoughts on this and whether this is correct / common practice?  Because I had originally purchased the tanks to use them to their full quotas.  Then I read the above info and it's thrown me a bit.

I don't really want to increase developing time so I think it isn't good to develop the full quota of rolls in the tank at 1:1 with 'normal' times then for my tanks I'll probably just put:  1 roll in my 2-reel tank and 2 rolls in my 3-reel tank.  Would this be OK at 1:1 and normal dev times ?

(I've been using 1:1 and loving the results by the way - I've been developing one roll each time in the 2 reel tank. The only reason I did only one roll at a time was that they were my first rolls so just wanted to keep it simple in case I made mistakes)

Thanks in advance 
Graham

 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by grahamc

[Doug A]

From the Kodak D76 data sheet: https://www.freestylephoto.biz/static/pdf/product_pdf/kodak/D76_INSTRUCTIONS.pdf

"If you use Developer D-76 diluted 1:1, dilute it just before you use it, and discard it after processing the batch of film. Before using the diluted developer, make certain that there are no air bubbles in the solution. If air is coming out of the solution and forming bubbles, let the solution stand until the bubbles dissipate. Don’t reuse or replenish the diluted solution. You can develop one 135-3 roll (80 square inches) in 473 mL (16 ounces) or two rolls together in 946 mL (one quart) of diluted developer. If you process one 135-36 roll in a 237 mL (8-ounce) tank or two
135-36 rolls in a 473 mL (16-ounce) tank, increase the development time by 10 percent (see the following tables)."

[Ornello]

2 hours ago, grahamc said:

Hello film friends

I have only just started home development and am using D76 diluted 1:1, and Tri-X 

I have 2 tanks:

• a steel 2 reel tank ....and
• a Paterson 3 reel tank.

I read on another forum that ... "if using 1:1 developer, it is best to only develop 1 film in a 2 reel tank, and 2 films in a 4 reel tank, (or increase development time) due to the decreased strength of the developer".

Would love to get some thoughts on this and whether this is correct / common practice?  Because I had originally purchased the tanks to use them to their full quotas.  Then I read the above info and it's thrown me a bit.

I don't really want to increase developing time so I think it isn't good to develop the full quota of rolls in the tank at 1:1 with 'normal' times then for my tanks I'll probably just put:  1 roll in my 2-reel tank and 2 rolls in my 3-reel tank.  Would this be OK at 1:1 and normal dev times ?

(I've been using 1:1 and loving the results by the way - I've been developing one roll each time in the 2 reel tank. The only reason I did only one roll at a time was that they were my first rolls so just wanted to keep it simple in case I made mistakes)

Thanks in advance 
Graham

 

 

 

Fill the tank in any event, so that agitation is not excessive. Never fill the tank just enough to cover one roll when there is more capacity of the tank. Leave just a little space to allow some agitation. I would prefer the Paterson tank system, since it takes more solution; thus you won't have to worry about the amount of developer. Be sure to put two reels in the metal tank, even if one is empty, and put the reel with film in it at the bottom. You don't want the reels sloshing around inside the tank. Be sure to fill the tank almost to the top, regardless of how many films are in the reels.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Ornello

[grahamc]

3 hours ago, Doug A said:

From the Kodak D76 data sheet: https://www.freestylephoto.biz/static/pdf/product_pdf/kodak/D76_INSTRUCTIONS.pdf

"If you use Developer D-76 diluted 1:1, dilute it just before you use it, and discard it after processing the batch of film. Before using the diluted developer, make certain that there are no air bubbles in the solution. If air is coming out of the solution and forming bubbles, let the solution stand until the bubbles dissipate. Don’t reuse or replenish the diluted solution. You can develop one 135-3 roll (80 square inches) in 473 mL (16 ounces) or two rolls together in 946 mL (one quart) of diluted developer. If you process one 135-36 roll in a 237 mL (8-ounce) tank or two
135-36 rolls in a 473 mL (16-ounce) tank, increase the development time by 10 percent (see the following tables)."

Thanks 

It sounds like at 1:1 my steel tank (420ml) is only good for one roll , and my Paterson (approx 900ml) is only good for 2 rolls then if using 1:1  

 

That’s good to know and @Ornello I will be sure to put the spare reel on top also 

Even though my ml capacity is slightly below those mentioned, I think that will work fine as I’ve had no issues with developing one roll on the 420ml tank so far , they’ve come out great. 
 

Thanks 

[Ornello]

18 minutes ago, grahamc said:

Thanks 

It sounds like at 1:1 my steel tank (420ml) is only good for one roll , and my Paterson (approx 900ml) is only good for 2 rolls then if using 1:1  

 

That’s good to know and @Ornello I will be sure to put the spare reel on top also 

Even though my ml capacity is slightly below those mentioned, I think that will work fine as I’ve had no issues with developing one roll on the 420ml tank so far , they’ve come out great. 
 

Thanks 

Just be sure to fill the tank all the way regardless of the number of rolls in the tank! Leave just a small bit of air. Otherwise, the developer will slosh. You don't want that! It's just mild agitation, invert and rotate.

[Pyrogallol]

I have used a Paterson 2 reel tank for decades and only occasionally with 2 reels in it. It needs 300 ml for a single reel and 600ml for 2 which fills it almost to the top. When I develop a 120 film I have to remember to use 500ml instead of 300ml. When developing a single reel just be sure to use the spring collar on the center column to stop the spiral sliding up the column when you invert the tank. If you don’t have the spring collar you could use a second, empty, spiral instead. I don’t see any reason to fill the tank up higher than needed for the number of reels inside, that would just be wasting chemicals. Maybe if you only have one reel in a 6 reel tank then inverting that might shake the liquid up too much but then just be gentle in the way you invert the tank. I had a six reel tank many years ago but only used it a couple of times.

i have never used a stainless steel spiral/tank.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Pyrogallol

[Ornello]

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42 minutes ago, Pyrogallol said:

I have used a Paterson 2 reel tank for decades and only occasionally with 2 reels in it. It needs 300 ml for a single reel and 600ml for 2 which fills it almost to the top. When I develop a 120 film I have to remember to use 500ml instead of 300ml. When developing a single reel just be sure to use the spring collar on the center column to stop the spiral sliding up the column when you invert the tank. If you don’t have the spring collar you could use a second, empty, spiral instead. I don’t see any reason to fill the tank up higher than needed for the number of reels inside, that would just be wasting chemicals. Maybe if you only have one reel in a 6 reel tank then inverting that might shake the liquid up too much but then just be gentle in the way you invert the tank. I had a six reel tank many years ago but only used it a couple of times.

i have never used a stainless steel spiral/tank.

The reason is that 'just covering the reel' will cause excessive agitation. Fill the tank all the way up, regardless of the number of reels or films. Are you worried about 12 cents worth of developer?

Edited April 8, 2022 by Ornello

[Pyrogallol]

Disagree, I have been doing this since 1972. 

[giannis]

9 hours ago, grahamc said:

I read on another forum that ... "if using 1:1 developer, it is best to only develop 1 film in a 2 reel tank, and 2 films in a 4 reel tank, (or increase development time) due to the decreased strength of the developer".

 

You can put as many films as your tanks can fit, it won't play a role and development will be fine. There is a minimum quantity of developer needed to develop a roll, this is usually around 100ml/roll. This means regardless of the dilution you use, make sure that you have at least 100ml of stock developer per roll in the tank. In practice, this only becomes an issue with higher dilutions and small tanks, i.e. 1+2 or most usually 1+3 and above. At 1+1 you're absolutely fine.

The advice you read is probably some misinterpretation of the above or maybe they didn't phrase it properly. You will have no issues developing as many rolls as your tank will fit. Most tanks require something like 250-300ml/roll of total solution, so at 1+1 it means you'll be using 125-150ml of stock developer per roll, which is comfortably above the minimum amount required.

 

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by giannis
correction

[Doug A]

2 hours ago, Ornello said:

The reason is that 'just covering the reel' will cause excessive agitation. Fill the tank all the way up, regardless of the number of reels or films. Are you worried about 12 cents worth of developer?

It's more like $1.20 worth of developer if you're using Ilfotec DD-X (1+4). It wouldn't take too many rolls to pay for a smaller 1-reel tank.

I have always used a 1-reel Nikor or Kindermann tank with 4 oz of solutions for 35mm and a 2-reel Nikor or Kindermann tank with 8 oz of solutions for 120. I did see what others said were surge marks with the 35mm from too much agitation years ago before I learned not to handle the developing tank like a cocktail shaker. I started doing very gentle inversions and the problem went away. 

[Ornello]

24 minutes ago, Doug A said:

It's more like $1.20 worth of developer if you're using Ilfotec DD-X (1+4). It wouldn't take too many rolls to pay for a smaller 1-reel tank.

I have always used a 1-reel Nikor or Kindermann tank with 4 oz of solutions for 35mm and a 2-reel Nikor or Kindermann tank with 8 oz of solutions for 120. I did see what others said were surge marks with the 35mm from too much agitation years ago before I learned not to handle the developing tank like a cocktail shaker. I started doing very gentle inversions and the problem went away. 

I have numerous Paterson tanks, from one-roll to five-roll. That's the best way to handle that issue.

[Aryel]

I do the same as the majority above without any issue. I use enough liquid to cover as many reels (with a good safety margin) as in the tank no more no less. I have developed up to 4x35mm rolls together in a steel tank. If I develop less film than the tank capacity, I just add empty reels that don’t need to be covered in liquid. I do not change the development time. It makes no sense to me. I just make sure I have enough active solution as described by the manufacturer.

I’d suggest to go for it and put as many films as your tank can hold.   

[250swb]

I think either use the right sized tank or fill the one you have. To avoid surge you need enough developer so inverting the tank doesn't produce violent movement of the developer or so much developer that it just doesn't circulate. A similar lesson was drummed into me at college and then in newspaper darkrooms where deep tanks were used (D76 1+1), and the film never had a hard life and was only swished around rather than eroded in a torrent of liquid 😄

Edited April 9, 2022 by 250swb

[grahamc]

21 hours ago, giannis said:

You can put as many films as your tanks can fit, it won't play a role and development will be fine. There is a minimum quantity of developer needed to develop a roll, this is usually around 100ml/roll. This means regardless of the dilution you use, make sure that you have at least 100ml of stock developer per roll in the tank. In practice, this only becomes an issue with higher dilutions and small tanks, i.e. 1+2 or most usually 1+3 and above. At 1+1 you're absolutely fine.

The advice you read is probably some misinterpretation of the above or maybe they didn't phrase it properly. You will have no issues developing as many rolls as your tank will fit. Most tanks require something like 250-300ml/roll of total solution, so at 1+1 it means you'll be using 125-150ml of stock developer per roll, which is comfortably above the minimum amount required.

 

 

Thanks, I developed 3 rolls in my 3-roll Paterson today, 1:1with no issues at normal dev time   

When I have been using the smaller 2 roll tank for only one roll I have been filling it up also. 

Really like the results of D76