Military engravings

[willeica]

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12 hours ago, dubois pierre said:

After verification this camera was sold on 25/07/2021 in GB and here is the original description of the sale. 
This Leica IIIc travels a lot because it can be found on ebay today (334386466356). Obviously the seller leaves doubt about 
the authenticity of these engravings.Sale ends today.

"Leica IIIc chrome, serial no. 373306, with Leitz Elmar f/4 90mm lens, black, serial no. 518223, body, F-G, lacking base plate, lens, G, some internal haze Note: Camera has spurious markings to body and lens "Oberkommando-Der-Wehrmacht Eigentum" and "Berlin" Note: Lot imported under Temporary Admission. 5% UK import VAT will be charged on the ‘hammer’ and 20% UK VAT will be charged on the ‘buyer’s premium’ and invoiced on an inclusive basis under UK Margin Scheme rules. chrome, serial no. 373306, with Leitz Elmar f/4 90mm lens, black, serial no. 518223, body, F-G, lacking base plate, lens, G, some internal haze Note: Camera has spurious markings to body and lens "Oberkommando-Der-Wehrmacht Eigentum" and "Berlin"".

This camera is not listed in Luigi Cane's book of Military Leicas - 372200 is followed by 373776, both being IIIcs . I could ask his co-author Lars Netopil, but I think that there has been enough evidence to show that this is a fake. Glad to see that the auctioneer on a previous occasion used the term 'spurious'. 

William 

[PG Black nickel]

Another strange military engraving, in a recent sale of a well known gallery was sold this post war III C camera, the engraving is "Bundeseigentum-heer" number 12-237-5142H. The lens is a 1935 summar with the same engraving. ...Several questions arise, why the German army would have a camera of 1951 when, according to Pierre it existed only from 1955, another question why take such an old lens when there was a 50mm more powerful in 1951.
For the history this camera was sold at 5800 € without expenses! There is perhaps something that I would not have seen,

 

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[dubois pierre]

Here is a lot from the sale that Jerzy recalled from 2015. I bought it in 2016. I went to the Mercedes museum in Germany to see if there were any archives on it and in the doubt I had it appraised in Vienna. Of course the engravings were fake. There is no limit to the imagination of forgers.

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[dubois pierre]

Bonjour Philippe, for me, In 1949 West Germany was formed from the French, British and American zones, while the Soviet zone formed
the German Democratic Republic. Germany's western territory naturally fell under the protection of the North
Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) as the eastern state joined the Warsaw Pact. Each state had its own military
force modeled after the countries in their sphere of influence. And it was only in 1955 that the German army was
created under the name of Bundeswehr. So it is impossible that a German military engraving is found on a material
of this time

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1 hour ago, dubois pierre said:

And it was only in 1955 that the German army was
created under the name of Bundeswehr. So it is impossible that a German military engraving is found on a material
of this time

I don't think this follows. It's not physically impossible for a new organisation to engrave old cameras, possibly inherited from a former organisation. However, they still would have used the proper terms and spellings, possibly even reasonable ones.

[Anbaric]

On 4/7/2022 at 6:30 AM, jerzy said:

if you mean SAS auction from July 2015 - this particular camera was not there. They sold a batch of approx 50 Leica with fantasy engravings, but they advertised them as well accordingly, as being not genuine. I have a list of cameras offered at that time, I believe I posted this list asd well here years ago.

Any idea what the story behind that was? Were they all done in the same style, perhaps the stock of a single faker? Unlike the cheap Soviet fakes, it's quite an investment to get hold of this many real Leicas and do something that will devalue them to the experienced eye, whether the original intention was to indulge some strange fantasy or to deceive.