Abuse for using a Leica???

[Tom R]

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4 hours ago, erl said:

I won't be in America!

Very wise.

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Herr Barnack]

1 hour ago, Tom R said:

Well, I've been photographing public spaces since the late 1980's from New Orleans (where I was born and spent the first 14 years of my life) to New England. I will say that I've had fewer problems in the Northeastern cities; that was during the late 90's to 2015 or thereabouts. I will also note that most of the problems I've had have NOT been in cities or urban settings--rather they've occurred in suburban and exurban settings. In Montgomery County, Maryland (a suburb of DC), for example, I was several times accosted by people who thought I was photographing their homes or their children when in most cases I was photographing the environment, such as the distribution and types of homes in near-rural areas. I had a guy run out of his house and flash an FBI badge while photographing near a wooded area in another Maryland suburb. He threatened to confiscate my equipment and bring me in for photographing the fence running along his yard. This last event occurred around 2014 ... or thereabouts.

Since retiring in 2017, I've moved to southwest Florida where I've had some "interesting" encounters with people on residential streets (never mind cities)--in the most recent (and memorable) example, I wound up talking down an an old man with a rifle. He accused me of secretly photographing his house when he wasn't home and working for the government. I am reminded of something attributed to Henri Cartier-Bresson, which I paraphrase: "It's better to click with people than to click the shutter." I explained to him that I was actually photographing a church, the first established in this particular village; I am working on a book of photographs about this village. Obviously, he did not shoot me, but I made damned sure that I wouldn't need to re-visit this particular location.

In sum: I think that the tone, frequency and volatility of these kinds of encounters has accelerated since 2016. But, in summary, you might be correct: location is everything.

Tom, you have certainly had some, uh, "interesting" encounters with people. 😳

It seems that people are getting to be more crazy as time goes by.  I cannot figure out why this is, but it is appalling.  If it keeps getting worse, I may very well go back to photographing rocks and trees and leave people to marinate in their loony sauce.

[wda]

5 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

Tom, you have certainly had some, uh, "interesting" encounters with people. 😳

It seems that people are getting to be more crazy as time goes by.  I cannot figure out why this is, but it is appalling.  If it keeps getting worse, I may very well go back to photographing rocks and trees and leave people to marinate in their loony sauce.

Let's face it, apart from photographic group outings, anyone not using a smartphone for photography is considered old-fashioned. 🤔 

[Tom R]

8 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

Tom, you have certainly had some, uh, "interesting" encounters with people. 😳

It seems that people are getting to be more crazy as time goes by.  I cannot figure out why this is, but it is appalling.  If it keeps getting worse, I may very well go back to photographing rocks and trees and leave people to marinate in their loony sauce.

Makes me think of the "f/64" school. I bet I could afford the view camera, but the cost of film alone might require that I go back to some kind of 9-to-9 (9-to-5 has long given way to the robber barons' need for total immersion from their serfs).

[Herr Barnack]

On 11/7/2022 at 3:49 AM, wda said:

Let's face it, apart from photographic group outings, anyone not using a smartphone for photography is considered old-fashioned. 🤔 

For the general public that knows nothing about photography, that's probably true.

that does not mean photographers who use real cameras exist for the sole purpose of being verbally abused by those afflicted with Rectal Personality Disorder.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Herr Barnack

[Tom R]

43 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said:

For the general public that knows nothing about photography, that's probably true.

that does not mean photographers who use real cameras exist for the sole purpose of being verbally abused by those afflicted with Rectal Personality Disorder.

I don't mind being considered "old fashioned" (I am 67 years old). But, I certainly resent being considered a "threat"--usually by those members of American society who wish to overthrow democracy for any number of reasons. 

[Ray Vonn]

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I must admit, I don't simply reach for my camera out of the bag and take a shot, there is a subconscious check of the immediate environment around me. This may take as little as half a second but it does happen and whilst the value of what I'm taking out of the bag is probably the largest factor, the possible reaction from AN Other member of the public (depending on where I am) may have a smidgen to do with that.

[erl]

I now for a fact that dogs can smell fear. I am certain they are not the only ones.

If one is fearful of a situation, a possible predator immediately has the advantage.

I always approach a photo situation with a display of confidence.

It is amazing how often a crowd will part for you when you have confidence.

[NZDavid]

I can count on one hand the number of times anyone has ever noticed what camera brand I was using. A few times, people asked if my M9 or M10 was a film camera.

[Ouroboros]

On 7/28/2022 at 8:55 AM, erl said:

You surprise me. I have used almost exclusively Hasselblad for about 40+ years of my working life and never had a serous failure. Regular service is a given, but considerably cheaper than service for my car. I currently own 4 Blad bodies, 7 or 8 lenses (not sure of the actual count), multiple magazines etc. I did progress from the Compur to the Prontor shutters over the years, but mainly for optical improvements with lenses. I still love using that gear, but with age I find Leica a lot easier to tote around.

I find it a bit sad to contemplate the ultimate fate of all my gear in fact. The time is coming when I will no longer be able to use it, yet I cannot bring myself to part with it. It all deserves a serious user to take it over.

BTW, I would not sneer at you for using 'lesser' gear. In all probability your photographs could be superior to mine, and that is what counts.

I can relate to this!  In late 1999 I stopped using film for my work, it was literally an overnight conversion to digital and I sold almost all my film cameras, mainly Nikon, Bronica and a couple of Hasselblads.  Selling the ‘blads was a difficult thing, I’d made my living with them for years so I decided to keep one body and 3 lenses.

I’ve continued to use them ever since, mainly for personal work although I have taken a few sneaky wedding photographs with it over the years ‘for old time’s sake’.

A couple of years ago I was offered what I think may well have been the last completely unused 503CW body in black. I know the history of this camera and I personally know the wedding and portrait  photographer, a good friend,  who bought it new, along with a second new chrome 503CW from Ffordes at the same time in 2005.  He unfortunately has OCD and always bought new cameras and lenses two at a time, he would use one exclusively and put the other away in a cupboard and it was my black one that went into the cupboard and stayed there untouched, box unopened, for 15 years until it came into my hands.

I enjoy using it, and my original chrome one very much, but they do seem to gain weight over time.

 

Edited November 9, 2022 by Ouroboros

[hepcat]

9 hours ago, erl said:

I now for a fact that dogs can smell fear. I am certain they are not the only ones.

If one is fearful of a situation, a possible predator immediately has the advantage.

I always approach a photo situation with a display of confidence.

It is amazing how often a crowd will part for you when you have confidence.

"Yea though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of Death, I shall fear no evil for I AM the meanest SOB in the valley."

"Presence" is everything.

[Tom R]

5 hours ago, hepcat said:

"Yea though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of Death, I shall fear no evil for I AM the meanest SOB in the valley."

"Presence" is everything.

I carry business cards identifying me and my profession as well as providing (safe) contact information. In the past, I have avoided a lot of "misunderstandings" by providing business cards and answering questions. I have never used an image that I was asked not to use. The kinds of situations that I've encountered over the last three years or so, however, are different. I don't know if these are part of the fabric of contemporary American society or if these are "one off" events that are more likely to arise because of the venue, i.e., Southwest Florida--which is fundamentally different than Washington, DC, etc. I've even considered the possibility that these encounters are confirmation bias in that I'm expecting a certain interaction based upon the time and place. 

Taking these possibilities into account, I am still left with a nagging concern that things will further degenerate before they get better. 

 

[hepcat]

1 hour ago, Tom R said:

I carry business cards identifying me and my profession as well as providing (safe) contact information. In the past, I have avoided a lot of "misunderstandings" by providing business cards and answering questions. I have never used an image that I was asked not to use. The kinds of situations that I've encountered over the last three years or so, however, are different. I don't know if these are part of the fabric of contemporary American society or if these are "one off" events that are more likely to arise because of the venue, i.e., Southwest Florida--which is fundamentally different than Washington, DC, etc. I've even considered the possibility that these encounters are confirmation bias in that I'm expecting a certain interaction based upon the time and place. 

Taking these possibilities into account, I am still left with a nagging concern that things will further degenerate before they get better. 

 

Tom, we are about the same age.  I share your concerns.  We are now in an age where there's a segment of society who believes that whatever rights they think they have override anyone else's and they're willing to go to the mat to prove it so.   They have no personal boundaries, but believe that it is their role to set whatever boundaries they believe are appropriate for everyone else... regardless of law, principle, precedent, or common understanding.   It's not merely in SW Florida, although from watching the news, I'm beginning to believe that the barbarians have taken over Florida en masse as well as some other areas of the country.   It's truly a sad state of affairs, and your concerns are not unfounded. 

[Tom R]

15 hours ago, hepcat said:

Tom, we are about the same age.  I share your concerns.  We are now in an age where there's a segment of society who believes that whatever rights they think they have override anyone else's and they're willing to go to the mat to prove it so.   They have no personal boundaries, but believe that it is their role to set whatever boundaries they believe are appropriate for everyone else... regardless of law, principle, precedent, or common understanding.   It's not merely in SW Florida, although from watching the news, I'm beginning to believe that the barbarians have taken over Florida en masse as well as some other areas of the country.   It's truly a sad state of affairs, and your concerns are not unfounded. 

Thank you for your follow-up. People on this and other forums have argued whether photography is or is not an art, but I think most agree that we live in a world of images. I suppose that one obvious question I (we, as photographers) should ask is can photography do anything to draw stem this nihilistic madness? As I wrote this last sentence I immediately thought that photography, maybe because it is taken for granted, has less "power" than pop idols, such as actors, performers, etc., to penetrate the fog of social media and reach the "average person."

Maybe a good long-term project that needs immediate treatment?

[hepcat]

44 minutes ago, Tom R said:

Thank you for your follow-up. People on this and other forums have argued whether photography is or is not an art, but I think most agree that we live in a world of images. I suppose that one obvious question I (we, as photographers) should ask is can photography do anything to draw stem this nihilistic madness? As I wrote this last sentence I immediately thought that photography, maybe because it is taken for granted, has less "power" than pop idols, such as actors, performers, etc., to penetrate the fog of social media and reach the "average person."

Maybe a good long-term project that needs immediate treatment?

The problem is that decent people once condemned indecency, and were willing to line up on the side of "right" when photography, art, and journalism illustrated "wrongs."  Today the barbarians cheer the "wrongs," eschew journalism as biased, and embrace their form of fascism as guiding principles.    The basic human decency we had come to expect from one another is an endangered commodity.   Once common decency, the social lubricant that allows us to move through life with a common understanding of "right" and "wrong" is gone, what happens?  When a significant portion of the population embraces individualism without limits, what happens to society?  We once were able to balance the rights of individuals and the needs of society.  What happens in a post-truth society where a third of the population embraces lies as fact and barbarism as the social norm?  I fear that those who embrace the new individualism won't be swayed by journalistic pursuits or artistic statements.  They either refute the wrongs as "lies" or they embrace and celebrate them as the fruits of their labor toiling against some make-believe, invisible oppression.  Either way, those who embrace "wrong" as "right" won't be swayed from their views.

I just don't know Tom.  We live in perilous times. 

[Siriusone59]

This discussion is beginning to remind me of John Calhoun's mouse utopia experiment.  It didn't end well for the mice.🤔

[Chimichurri]

On 3/29/2022 at 2:32 AM, barnabythebear said:

Hi all,

Just an anecdote from the weekend.

I was out enjoying the sun and taking some shots around Notting Hill, London with my Q2 and a guy (American for detail), walked past and sneered at me "where's your proper camera then?". I was quite taken aback but It got me thinking about whether other photographers resent the brand or its users? I sometimes read the comments on Leica news items over at DP Review and there does seem to be a minority who have trouble with Leica and its users.

Thank you,

Nige.

The proper way to answer an American like that, I’m from PR so technically I’m an American, is with this answer 

You grab your balls, and move them up and down and you say:

“I got my real camera right here. You wanna try it?”

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Chimichurri

[Herr Barnack]

On 11/11/2022 at 5:28 PM, Chimichurri said:

The proper way to answer an American like that, I’m from PR so technically I’m an American, is with this answer 

You grab your balls, and move them up and down and you say:

“I got my real camera right here. You wanna try it?”

 

Anyone who responds in that manner should immediately be on guard for a kick aimed at their "real camera" bag...

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[williamj]

This thread has segued to the hazards of street photography so I’ll give a counter example. In Brisbane especially around the Queen Street Mall there’s a photographer who takes pictures of the public and posts it to instagram. If you don’t like it he’ll take down the photo of you. My son says he uses a telephoto zoom so I think I’ve seen him ambling about. 
 

People want to appear on his instagram and that has led to the public in the mall being highly tolerant of people with cameras. Sadly I’ve been mistaken for him, once directly by some teenagers who came over very excitedly and several times by inference due to the smiles of those being photographed. I say sadly because if you’re using film you can’t show the picture you took and also that their expectation of being on his instagram would be dashed. Some pedestrians see the camera and put their hand up to their faces in a flash and one person dropped their umbrella down over their head so that it looked like an umbrella with legs. 
 

I’m not sure what my point is but I think a good culture around photography with cameras, not only camera phones, can develop if the public thinks it is getting something out of it and if the photographers are respectful. Brisbane isn’t a small town though, it’s a state capital and Australia’s third largest city, all factors to be considered. 

[erl]

Unfortunately, I think the genie is out of the bottle. Over the years (10 or 20) that I have been indulging in 'street' photography, I have noticed a big change in the public attitude towards me and my cameras. There was a time when I would end up sharing a bottle of wine with my spontaneous target, or just sharing a bit of conversation, or just a friendly wave. But today the responses are far less willing and I have, on occasions, had to defend my actions.

I believe I am always within my rights, but most people are ignorant of them. That is the problem.

I have now relocated my favourite haunts such that I am far less obtrusive/obvious, and I believe I get better images anyway.