LuckyDog Posted March 5, 2022 Share #1  Posted March 5, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) I picked up a Leica IIIb and yet the serial number seems to be from a batch listed as IIIa. Is this unusual or just the quirks of collecting Leicas? It appears to be an export model and was purchased in Canada. Thanks for any help or clarification. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/330428-leica-iiib-with-a-iiia-serial-number/?do=findComment&comment=4395056'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 5, 2022 Posted March 5, 2022 Hi LuckyDog, Take a look here Leica IIIb with a IIIa serial number. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jerzy Posted March 5, 2022 Share #2  Posted March 5, 2022 serial number engravings are not as usual at Leitz, it is possible that top cover has been replaced and new number engraved. You would need to open the camera and check the number inside. But it is as well possible that single IIIb cameras have been assebmled and serial from IIIa batch has been given. And last possibility is rebuild - conversion from IIIa to IIIb was never officialy offered by Leitz but technicaly it is possible if the person has skills and spare parts. Midland, Ontario used seldomly similar font on some of 18x24, this could possibly indicate repair in Canada Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! First thing would be to take off top cover and check the number inside. And in parallel you may send inquiry to Leitz Archive for this serial Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! First thing would be to take off top cover and check the number inside. And in parallel you may send inquiry to Leitz Archive for this serial ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/330428-leica-iiib-with-a-iiia-serial-number/?do=findComment&comment=4395122'>More sharing options...
LuckyDog Posted March 5, 2022 Author Share #3 Â Posted March 5, 2022 Thank you. I will indeed remove the top to check the serial number. I appreciate the comparison to the half-frame with the same font. I have read that sometimes exported cameras were engraved at their destination. I sent in the serial number and was informed the camera was delivered in May, 1939. The camera works well and is a pleasant addition to my Barnack collection. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted March 5, 2022 Share #4  Posted March 5, 2022 Production of the IIIa and IIIb overlapped and it is not surprising, therefore, to find inter-mixing of types within serial number batches. The best way to check is to ask for the original delivery details from info@leica-camera.com. William Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyDog Posted March 5, 2022 Author Share #5  Posted March 5, 2022 6 minutes ago, willeica said: Production of the IIIa and IIIb overlapped and it is not surprising, therefore, to find inter-mixing of types within serial number batches. The best way to check is to ask for the original delivery details from info@leica-camera.com. William I did and they simply provided a date of delivery. No other details. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldwino Posted March 6, 2022 Share #6  Posted March 6, 2022 My IIIa has a III serial number, first in a batch series. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerzy Posted March 6, 2022 Share #7  Posted March 6, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) ...and this is what makes the Leica world so interesting for collectors....At least starting from II batches of serial numbers were assigned to particular model but production not always kept this order. So you may for find for ex. IIf, serial 455xxx from 1951 while IIIf 525xxx is from 1950. And to make it more complicated - within assigned batches sometimes single/few different models have been produced. And rarely as well a model was wrongly written into delivery records - I have IIIb from 1951 (357109), in Leitz archive it is marked as IIIa, but this is deffinitely wrong, camera was produced as IIIb, one may recognize possible conversions when inspecting camera inside. And finally, previously unused numbers were sometimes used much later, like that IIIc/IIIf with serial 3976xxx from 1962 approx. Did Leica reply with model codeword or model? Usually they do it. Under the top cover, IIIb (top) and IIIa. Notice where the serial is engraved for both models. If your camera was produced as IIIa and top plate was retained during conversion to IIIb (usually original top plates were retained and just modified for the purpose of new model) than you will see camera serial after removing part of viewfinder, marked. Pls share with us some photos after removing top cover Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/330428-leica-iiib-with-a-iiia-serial-number/?do=findComment&comment=4395679'>More sharing options...
sabears Posted March 6, 2022 Share #8  Posted March 6, 2022 ... adding pepper to the discussion... between other: look the very same font used for serial number... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!    1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!    ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/330428-leica-iiib-with-a-iiia-serial-number/?do=findComment&comment=4395811'>More sharing options...
jerzy Posted March 6, 2022 Share #9  Posted March 6, 2022 …and as well your camera is a bit unusual, combination of DRP and GmbH indicate later date than the serial would point to….top cover replaced? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted March 6, 2022 Share #10  Posted March 6, 2022 (edited) 22 hours ago, LuckyDog said: I did and they simply provided a date of delivery. No other details. Did they indicate a camera type by code word or send you the entry from their register? If so, can you share? A IIIa body is AGNOO/LUOOB, with Summar ADKOO/LIOON and with Elmar ADOOR/LEOOR. A IIIb body is ATOOH/LIGOO, with Summar AZOOB/LUDOO and ARHOO/LEYOO with Elmar. There are some others, but you will get the picture. William Edited March 6, 2022 by willeica 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyDog Posted March 6, 2022 Author Share #11 Â Posted March 6, 2022 To be honest, I was rather surprised at the sparsity of their reply. You just get a date of delivery. My cameras date from pre-WWII, wartime, and post-war. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldwino Posted March 7, 2022 Share #12  Posted March 7, 2022 9 hours ago, willeica said: A IIIa body is AGNOO/LUOOB, with Summar ADKOO/LIOON and with Elmar ADOOR/LEOOR. A IIIb body is ATOOH/LIGOO, with Summar AZOOB/LUDOO and ARHOO/LEYOO with Elmar. There are some others, but you will get the picture. William Try reading this aloud after a couple of pints… 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
romanus53 Posted March 7, 2022 Share #13 Â Posted March 7, 2022 The use of such a "Telegrammwort" was quite common to make a quick order in business. Each letter of the five was spelled with an alphabet-name when ordered by phone and for the costs of five words your order was unique - as long as nobody was drunk in business. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted March 7, 2022 Share #14  Posted March 7, 2022 8 hours ago, oldwino said: Try reading this aloud after a couple of pints… The object here was to help LuckyDog. He is trying to figure out if he has an original IIIb and those codes, silly as they may seem, would be key to determining what he has. I don't carry these around in my head, but got them from the book by Laney, which is a goldmine when it comes to such information. I'm glad that my attempt to assist a fellow forum member is a source of mirth to some. His only other option is to take the camera apart as suggested by Jerzy, who also mentioned the code word route. William 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyDog Posted March 8, 2022 Author Share #15 Â Posted March 8, 2022 Many thanks for the lively discussion. And so interesting to see another export camera with the same font. I appreciate all of the input. I have a soft spot for the IIIb models as they were short lived compared to the IIIa and IIIc, etc. Cheers, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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