Insurance questions USA: stated value, assessed value, replacement cost, non-current models

[ymc226]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

The recent insurance threads got me thinking to add insurance at least when I take a camera or two on even a daily photo excursion.  I live and photograph near Santa Monica, so lots of homeless, unpredictable crime (even murders) near the pier or in Venice in broad daylight.  With 2 digital Ms and and no extra lenses, the value could approximate 25K.  

I spoke with my insurance agent who provides my homeowner's policy who will get me a quote on both just insuring what I carry out of the house but another for my whole kit even at home.  What are the pertinent distinguishing issues when asking for how the equipment will be insured.  I have about 30+ Leica M lenses, about half the current ASPH or gen 1 ASPH models and the rest mint pre-ASPH version.  Camera bodies will also become last years models eventually so how do I come up with a practical (in terms of quote) way to value?   I don't have receipts for everything but even if I did, my 2012 M9-P is not going to be worth anywhere near the purchased price.  If the insurance company is willing and I would accept their quote, would stated value be the easiest way to approach this common issue?  Vintage Leica lens prices in some cases are also rising rather quickly.  

[Pieter12]

Usually insurance companies reimburse based on replacement value. You would get what it would cost to replace the item at the time of the loss. Collectables would require an appraisal to be on file.

[zeitz]

40 minutes ago, Pieter12 said:

Collectables would require an appraisal to be on file.

This is not always true.  If the collectables do not routinely leave the house to be used, cameras collectibles be insured on a general collectibles policy.  My collectibles policy with Nationwide does not require an appraisal, only a listing of the collectibles and estimated value (by me).  It's kind of an agreed value used to price the policy.  Previously my policy with State Farm was a camera policy and did not discriminate between collectible and user equipment; State Farm did require an appraisal.  Nationwide does not give a discount for an alarm system at the home location.  State Farm did give a discount for alarms.

[ymc226]

1 hour ago, Pieter12 said:

Usually insurance companies reimburse based on replacement value. You would get what it would cost to replace the item at the time of the loss. Collectables would require an appraisal to be on file.

With non-current models such as pre-ASPH lenses or older digital camera bodies, how would one arrive at replacement value?  I don't think a M9-P would be insured at the price of the current M11.  Hopefully, I will hear from my insurance agent soon.  He wasn't sure as he insures my business and has another person in the company deal with the personal/homeowner's side of things.  

[zeitz]

49 minutes ago, ymc226 said:

With non-current models such as pre-ASPH lenses or older digital camera bodies, how would one arrive at replacement value?

Assuming you don't have equipment with special finishes or limited additions, prices are not hard to find.  E-bay gives a great picture of the market even if you don't want to buy on E-bay.  Collectiblend.com gives their look at recent prices but has nothing for sale.  Then there are many brick and mortar stores in the US with websites that have excellent inventories; Tamarkin, Igor Camera Exchange, KEH, Roberts, Camera West, Classic Connection are a few.  In SoCal you can also visit the stores, such as Camera West in Rancho Mirage, OC Camera, Paul's Camera and Samy's on Fairfax.

[andybarton]

7 hours ago, ymc226 said:

 I don't think a M9-P would be insured at the price of the current M11

It might be at an M10P, but why not an M11?

If you lost your M9P and had a “new for old” policy, I would expect that the insurance would provide you the nearest new equivalent. That’s the whole point of “new for old”.

The M9P was the top of the range Leica rangefinder in its day. The M11 is now.

If my M240 was lost, stolen or damaged beyond repair, I would expect an M11 as a replacement under my policy.

[Pieter12]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

On 2/10/2022 at 4:22 PM, ymc226 said:

With non-current models such as pre-ASPH lenses or older digital camera bodies, how would one arrive at replacement value?  I don't think a M9-P would be insured at the price of the current M11.  Hopefully, I will hear from my insurance agent soon.  He wasn't sure as he insures my business and has another person in the company deal with the personal/homeowner's side of things.  

I would think with older digital bodies or backs you might be out of luck. Since they are most probably no longer available and not repairable, their value is 0.

[mikemgb]

On 2/11/2022 at 2:01 AM, andybarton said:

It might be at an M10P, but why not an M11?

If you lost your M9P and had a “new for old” policy, I would expect that the insurance would provide you the nearest new equivalent. That’s the whole point of “new for old”.

The M9P was the top of the range Leica rangefinder in its day. The M11 is now.

If my M240 was lost, stolen or damaged beyond repair, I would expect an M11 as a replacement under my policy.

This happened with me a few years ago when I was burgled, my Nikon DSLR was not a current model, the insurance company, USAA, replaced it with a new camera of the same level that mine was when I bought it. The same happened with most of our electronics, TVs, tablets, PCs, all replaced with new equivalents.

[zeitz]

On 2/11/2022 at 2:01 AM, andybarton said:

had a “new for old” policy, I would expect that the insurance would provide you the nearest new equivalent.

It depends what you are willing to pay for the policy and what the underwriter will accept.

1 minute ago, mikemgb said:

USAA

USAA is a premier insurance company that controls their risk by limiting whom they will insure.  I wish I were eligible.

[andybarton]

1 hour ago, zeitz said:

It depends what you are willing to pay for the policy and what the underwriter will accept.

Of course. Policies have to be paid for. 

All of my home contents are insured new for old, from the TV and the sideboard, the beds and dining table, to my cameras. All on the same policy. 

The insurance covers up to £25,000 of “contents” while out of the home, anywhere in the world. The excess is £300 and the annual cost of about £600, including the insurance of the building itself. 

This is pretty good value, I think. 

Specialist camera insurance, for an amateur like me, is a total rip-off. Been there, done that, had the t-shirt ripped off my back. 
 

 

[ymc226]

My agent states that any the claim affects the home insurance policy obviously but if 2 claims occurred, the policy would not be renewed and if I would have a claim surcharge for 5 years.  I did have Chubb in New Jersey but for some reason could not get it here in California for some reason.  My wife may have mentioned that even though we live near the coast, adjacent to us is what is considered a fire risk area so it is harder to find insurers willing to do business in our area.

The agent wanted me to create a schedule including year, model, SN and stated value.  If this is the case, would it make more sense to go with present market value for non current cameras and lenses?  I did buy many vintage lenses within the last 2 years so could go by purchased price.  For cameras like the M9P, M9M, I could state current market prices or replacement with the current equivalents (M11 and M10 Mono).  

[zeitz]

8 minutes ago, ymc226 said:

My agent states that any the claim affects the home insurance policy obviously but if 2 claims occurred, the policy would not be renewed and if I would have a claim surcharge for 5 years.  I did have Chubb in New Jersey but for some reason could not get it here in California for some reason.  My wife may have mentioned that even though we live near the coast, adjacent to us is what is considered a fire risk area so it is harder to find insurers willing to do business in our area.

The agent wanted me to create a schedule including year, model, SN and stated value.  If this is the case, would it make more sense to go with present market value for non current cameras and lenses?  I did buy many vintage lenses within the last 2 years so could go by purchased price.  For cameras like the M9P, M9M, I could state current market prices or replacement with the current equivalents (M11 and M10 Mono).  

Very interesting regarding claims affecting your home insurance policy and cancellation of the policy if you make claims.

Regarding the stated value, just remember that when all the values are added up, that is basis for the premium that the insurance company is going to charge you.  So you have to decide what part of the risk you are willing to assume.

[Jeff S]

Chubb (Masterpiece) and AIG (Private Client Group) have separate riders to home policies for collectibles, fine art, etc.  I’ve used both and insure my camera gear as well as my vintage silver prints and photo book collection. These policies have strict underwriting standards, including net worth, etc. For Leica gear, I provide my own replacement values; no appraisal required.  There is a built in provision for appreciation, up to an additional 50%, without any need to update on my part.  The coverage is worldwide, no deductible, essentially for all circumstances outside warranty, including my own stupidity.  Rates are reasonable.

Jeff

[ymc226]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

Chubb (Masterpiece) and AIG (Private Client Group) have separate riders to home policies for collectibles, fine art, etc.  I’ve used both and insure my camera gear as well as my vintage silver prints and photo book collection. These policies have strict underwriting standards, including net worth, etc. For Leica gear, I provide my own replacement values; no appraisal required.  There is a built in provision for appreciation, up to an additional 50%, without any need to update on my part.  The coverage is worldwide, no deductible, essentially for all circumstances outside warranty, including my own stupidity.  Rates are reasonable.

Jeff

I wish I still had CHUBB Masterpiece and don't know which company my house is insured under presently (my wife took care of that).  My agent asked me to complete an application for the inland marine insurance policy.  A personal articles floater was also mentioned as an option.   

[Jeff S]

32 minutes ago, ymc226 said:

I wish I still had CHUBB Masterpiece and don't know which company my house is insured under presently (my wife took care of that).  My agent asked me to complete an application for the inland marine insurance policy.  A personal articles floater was also mentioned as an option.   

Chubb,  not CHUBB… family name from 1892.  I switched to AIG after a relocation. Besides those two, only one other US insurer operates as they do, AFAIK, with relatively few exclusions and low hassle.  I use them for home, auto, collections, etc.

Jeff

Edited February 17, 2022 by Jeff S