The last Elmarit-M standing ...

[Guest]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Good thing is that all of the 2.8 lenses are readily available 2nd hand. The 2.8/21 ASPH, 2.8/24 ASPH, 2.8/50, and 2.8/90 lenses are quite affordable and still excellent options. I have the latter three of them and use them frequently.

[Capuccino-Muffin]

You are looking at it the wrong way. For example, the Summaron line never got discontinued. It only took 50 years for an update, or a new run. 

Same for the elmarit line. If they don’t offer anything in that lime at the moment doesn’t mean it’s gone. there will be a new run. The Elmarit, the Summaron, are not extinct just because at present they are not being made. Even the Hektor line will see a revival at one point in time. They are all Leica’s own.

See it on a timeline and everything will make sense. A 20-30-50 years gap in a production line is nothing in the long history of Leica. 

oh, and no, Voigtlander will never substitite a Leica lens in the mind of a true Leica person.
 

 

[otto.f]

2 hours ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

Voigtlander will never substitite a Leica lens in the mind of a true Leica person.

Has long been true and I don't know how long it will last. Until now, I agree as far as my experience goes. I recently bought the Ultron 35 ii, but I cannot see it as a (better) alternative for the Summicron 35 iv yet. Which does not mean that the price difference between the two 35 APO's is bigger than understandable at first sight

Edited February 11, 2022 by otto.f

[Capuccino-Muffin]

7 hours ago, otto.f said:

Has long been true and I don't know how long it will last. Until now, I agree as far as my experience goes. I recently bought the Ultron 35 ii, but I cannot see it as a (better) alternative for the Summicron 35 iv yet. Which does not mean that the price difference between the two 35 APO's is bigger than understandable at first sight

It will last forever. As soon as you dig into the Leica history and catalogue you realize the extreme quality and the wealth it has brought to the photo and the industrial world. That is the core that makes Leica a Legend. It goes well beyond the Summicron line LOL.
 

Will Omega ever replace Rolex? Will Nissan ever replace Mercedes? 

 

[Dennis]

4 minutes ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

It will last forever. As soon as you dig into the Leica history and catalogue you realize the extreme quality and the wealth it has brought to the photo and the industrial world. That is the core that makes Leica a Legend. It goes well beyond the Summicron line LOL.

Yes, I agree. The history and the legacy of the brand are key here. And for this reason, in a certain way, it makes happier to own a 35 Summicron rather than a CV 35/1.4 II.

BUT, I happily use the Nokton and the Cron, and both give me different renders, and they coexist very well together. I less Leica lenses than Voigtlander, but this is about budget.

That's why I never bought a Mercedes, I prefer a Nissan plus many lenses, 

 

[Dennis]

10 hours ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

You are looking at it the wrong way. For example, the Summaron line never got discontinued. It only took 50 years for an update, or a new run. 

Same for the elmarit line. If they don’t offer anything in that lime at the moment doesn’t mean it’s gone. there will be a new run. The Elmarit, the Summaron, are not extinct just because at present they are not being made. Even the Hektor line will see a revival at one point in time. They are all Leica’s own.

See it on a timeline and everything will make sense

It makes sense. So, maybe in the future, we will expect another Elmarit companion for the 28 Asph... 

10 hours ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

A 20-30-50 years gap in a production line is nothing in the long history of Leica. 

 

I can't wait that long for another Elmarit 🤣

[lct]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Depend on lenses. I don't count my Leica M lenses anymore and they are certainly the best compact lenses ever made but if you ask me which is the 35/2.8 i prefer i will say Biogon w/o hesitation. YMMV.

[Dennis]

5 minutes ago, lct said:

35/2.8 i prefer i will say Biogon w/o hesitation.

It's a oustanding lens, agree. In certain conditions, it's my first 35mm choice.

[lct]

Another one the Sonnar 50/1.5 that i prefer to my Summilux 50/1.4 v2 and v3 on mirrorless cameras (off voice: what's mirrorless?). Or the Nokton 35/1.4 SC v2 that i tend to prefer to my dear old Summilux 35/1.4 v2 (off voice: sacrilege!) .

[adan]

It's really not hard to understand, if one has been in Leica-world for at least 15-20 years.

About the time of the introduction of the 21/24 Summiluxes, Leica actually said that they were going to produce TWO lenses in each focal length. One very fast (and therefore very large) and very expensive, and one more compact and slower and less expensive.

Thus satisfying both the photographers who wanted more subject-separation, or low-light capability (on the CCD digitals of the time) - and those who wanted traditional-M minimum size/weight.

Thus 21 f/1.4 and f/3.4 - 24 f/1.4 and f/3.8 - 90mm f/2.0 (and now f/1.5) and f/4 (Macro).

And for certain middle-of-the-road focal lengths, the f/2.5-2.4 Summarits (R.I.P.) in place of f/2.8 Elmarits or the 50 Elmar f/2.8.

And the 28 Elmarit ASPH - already downsized significantly just a couple of years before. And which many consider a "proto-Summarit" anyway - it pioneered some of the manufacturing changes used for the Summarits and later lenses, and was intended to be the entry-level 28mm (or "~35mm" on the cropped-M8 introduced at the same time).

That was when (and why) the 21, 24, 28 v.4 and 90 Elmarits were dropped  💔 - considered to be, simultaneously, too slow and too large or heavy.

If there are any lenses at risk now, they would be the current "in-between" lenses - 28 Summicron, 35 Summicron pre-APO, 50 Summilux, and 90 APO-Summicron.

Although less so, since the 28/35/50 are already reasonably compact, and are "signature" M lenses with a premium price. And the 90 APO-Summicron f/2.0, if not exactly compact, is not a lot slower than the 90mm f/1.5 Summilux, while being half the weight (500g vs. 1010g).

[Capuccino-Muffin]

27 minutes ago, adan said:

It's really not hard to understand, if one has been in Leica-world for at least 15-20 years.

About the time of the introduction of the 21/24 Summiluxes, Leica actually said that they were going to produce TWO lenses in each focal length. One very fast (and therefore very large) and very expensive, and one more compact and slower and less expensive.

Thus satisfying both the photographers who wanted more subject-separation, or low-light capability (on the CCD digitals of the time) - and those who wanted traditional-M minimum size/weight.

Thus 21 f/1.4 and f/3.4 - 24 f/1.4 and f/3.8 - 90mm f/2.0 (and now f/1.5) and f/4 (Macro).

And for certain middle-of-the-road focal lengths, the f/2.5-2.4 Summarits (R.I.P.) in place of f/2.8 Elmarits or the 50 Elmar f/2.8.

And the 28 Elmarit ASPH - already downsized significantly just a couple of years before. And which many consider a "proto-Summarit" anyway - it pioneered some of the manufacturing changes used for the Summarits and later lenses, and was intended to be the entry-level 28mm (or "~35mm" on the cropped-M8 introduced at the same time).

That was when (and why) the 21, 24, 28 v.4 and 90 Elmarits were dropped  💔 - considered to be, simultaneously, too slow and too large or heavy.

If there are any lenses at risk now, they would be the current "in-between" lenses - 28 Summicron, 35 Summicron pre-APO, 50 Summilux, and 90 APO-Summicron.

Although less so, since the 28/35/50 are already reasonably compact, and are "signature" M lenses with a premium price. And the 90 APO-Summicron f/2.0, if not exactly compact, is not a lot slower than the 90mm f/1.5 Summilux, while being half the weight (500g vs. 1010g).

There is no hard rule about “having 2 lenses, one fast and one slow”. Please let’s not be gullible as to what Leica did and did not say. Leica did say a lot of things which were untrue, and they just let down the customers completely without warning. And they brought many products out from the left field without warning, as well.

For example, when the M8 came out they said a M camera Could never possibly have a full frame sensor.

Then, they changed their story as to the possibility that a M8 could have its sensor upgraded ad eternam, for a fee. Even for a full frame one. This was one lie too many and the GM got fired. Indeed it was a lie, some internet users opened up M8 cameras and there was no room for a FF sensor in there.

Then there was the M9.2 (yes, the M”240”) where the M line was supposed have its numbering removed. They backed down on that nonsense and came up with a proper M10 afterwards.

They resumed with production of a few lenses, namely the brilliant Summaron 28mm and Thambar. They also resumed the 50 f1.2 noctilux production. There is nothing new to this, they did the same with the modern MP,  a successor to the old MP. 
 

The Leica portfolio is huge, they will resume with production of any and all its lenses in due time. There will indeed be a next 24mm elmarit somewhere down the line, as there has indeed been a new 28mm summaron somewhere down the line. In the end, it’s all one big shuffle.

 

 

[otto.f]

14 hours ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

a next 24mm elmarit

Nice that you're so sure about it. There's at least one good reason to do that: the hood or rather the hood mounting design. The 'old' Elmarit 24 however belongs to my list of most interesting Leica lenses, it really inspires me.