Leica SL 21,.. plz

[helged]

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40 minutes ago, jplomley said:

I have recently contemplated picking up a Canon or Nikon just so I can use their 24/1.4 lenses, but I know if I do this, that will be the exact day Leica will launch the 21/24 APO's

Then I suggest you pick up CaNik-lens  i m m e d i a t e l y ... 😉

Edited June 14, 2023 by helged

[BernardC]

19 hours ago, jplomley said:

I have recently contemplated picking up a Canon or Nikon just so I can use their 24/1.4 lenses, but I know if I do this, that will be the exact day Leica will launch the 21/24 APO's. 

No worries if you did, but I suspect you aren't sharing the whole story. You can get a Sigma 24/1.4 DG DN lens for L Mount, and it would be a whole lot cheaper than buying into a new system.

[jplomley]

23 hours ago, BernardC said:

No worries if you did, but I suspect you aren't sharing the whole story. You can get a Sigma 24/1.4 DG DN lens for L Mount, and it would be a whole lot cheaper than buying into a new system.

I did not buy into the SL system to use Sigma optics. I bought into the system on the promise of a full suite of APO Summicrons as class leading lenses with consistent imaging performance between each lens. Leica has not been able to fulfill that promise within the timeline promised, end of story.

[BernardC]

45 minutes ago, jplomley said:

I did not buy into the SL system to use Sigma optics. I bought into the system on the promise of a full suite of APO Summicrons as class leading lenses with consistent imaging performance between each lens. Leica has not been able to fulfill that promise within the timeline promised, end of story.

That's what I thought. No one will judge you for switching systems. After all, it's just cameras, and all systems have features and components that take way too long to deliver.

I only asked because I don't think you'll find better lenses elsewhere (unless you need a >$10,000 Canon super-tele). There had to be another reason.

[Planetwide]

5 minutes ago, BernardC said:

That's what I thought. No one will judge you for switching systems. After all, it's just cameras, and all systems have features and components that take way too long to deliver.

I only asked because I don't think you'll find better lenses elsewhere (unless you need a >$10,000 Canon super-tele). There had to be another reason.

Its easy to find a better 21mm F2.0 elsewhere...😆

[Guest]

On 6/15/2023 at 5:23 AM, BernardC said:

No worries if you did, but I suspect you aren't sharing the whole story. You can get a Sigma 24/1.4 DG DN lens for L Mount, and it would be a whole lot cheaper than buying into a new system.

1. Catering to first party preference, aka 'Leica Love': The Summilux-M 21 f/1.4 remains a class-leading lens, available to use with excellent results on the SL cameras

2. Sigma 20mm F1.4 DG DN is very (!) good, and in Leica terms 'costs almost nothing'. Unlike the hypothetical 21mm Leica APO Summicron, it has the advantage of 'Summilux aperture' (although the rendering is more similar to a Cron, in terms of contrast and bokeh), and unlike M-lenses allows for a minimum focus distance of 23cm - invaluable to maximize the ultra-wide-angle effect and fully exploit the shallow DoF with close subjects

3. Sigma 24mm is not as good as the 20mm (did not buy)

4. I don't see how realistically a Leica APO Summicron could outperform the Sigma 20mm in any way ... Not all SL lenses have been amazing, 16-35 comes to mind?

5. 24mm lenses across all systems sell so poorly, it is the uber-niche lens. I don't know how it ever made it onto the roadmap. Even the Summilux-M 24 was discontinued ... Do a poll among photographers which focal length they would never consider buying, 24mm comes close to the top.

What I really want (in addition to, or instead of the 21/24 SL-APOs) is more 'modern, high performance lenses with classic rendering' like the Summilux-SL 50 f/1.4. More SL Summiluxes, or even a Noctilux, would give us something that *nobody else* is doing with AF lenses for any other system (I am referencing AF as I am aware of Voigtlander lenses e.g. for E mount).

P.S.: Unlike Leica, Sigma does provide an aperture ring on their L-mount lenses, which I greatly appreciate. 'More Leica than Leica', from an M-shooter's perspective ...

Edited June 16, 2023 by mzbe

[BernardC]

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1 hour ago, mzbe said:

24mm lenses across all systems sell so poorly, it is the uber-niche lens. I don't know how it ever made it onto the roadmap. Even the Summilux-M 24 was discontinued ... Do a poll among photographers which focal length they would never consider buying, 24mm comes close to the top.

24/25 is my favourite wide! I guess it depends what you are used to. I especially love it shooting from chest height with subjects around 2m away. You get very natural-looking full length portraits that way.

The reason why there's no 24 in the M system is because it isn't easy to use with the viewfinder. A 28 corresponds to the full VF view for most people, and a 21 definitely needs an external finder (or a feel for 90 degree horizontal coverage). The 24 made sense with the M8, where it had the field of a 35 on full frame, but not as much with the M9 and later cameras.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, BernardC said:

24/25 is my favourite wide! I guess it depends what you are used to. I especially love it shooting from chest height with subjects around 2m away. You get very natural-looking full length portraits that way.

The reason why there's no 24 in the M system is because it isn't easy to use with the viewfinder. A 28 corresponds to the full VF view for most people, and a 21 definitely needs an external finder (or a feel for 90 degree horizontal coverage). The 24 made sense with the M8, where it had the field of a 35 on full frame, but not as much with the M9 and later cameras.

... I have owned quite a few 24's on many systems, when I sold my much beloved Canon EF 24mm f/1.4 mk ii, it took almost a year to find a buyer ... YMMV.
So I don't know if the overall popularity (or lack thereoff) is indicative of a rangefinder limitation - although I agree with your argument that <28mm on rangefinder cameras has additional constraints.

[jplomley]

3 hours ago, mzbe said:

Catering to first party preference, aka 'Leica Love': The Summilux-M 21 f/1.4 remains a class-leading lens, available to use with excellent results on the SL cameras

No way that lens provides homogenous resolution across the imaging plane, which is what I expect the APO SC to deliver. I don't want my subjects dead centre for optimal rendering wide-open, thank-you very much. Not to mention the plethora of chromatic aberrations the M wide-angle lenses suffer from.

[robb]

One of my favorite lenses is the canon tilt shift 24mm

for interior and exterior architectural photography, it is a most used solution.  

I’ve always owned 24’s.  An m asph elmarit , a Nikon 1.4, a canon 1.4.  I think it is a must.  I use the SL 24-90 at 24 plenty of times… 

to me it’s also an essential for landscape or industrial work.  I think the main reason it’s not a more popular M lens is due to the finder range as the above poster said.  

but now that the 21 is coming, it may do for me all of what I used 24’s for previously.  

Robb

[Guest]

2 hours ago, jplomley said:

No way that lens provides homogenous resolution across the imaging plane, which is what I expect the APO SC to deliver. I don't want my subjects dead centre for optimal rendering wide-open, thank-you very much. Not to mention the plethora of chromatic aberrations the M wide-angle lenses suffer from.

If MTF is a priority, this is the chart for the Sigma 20mm DG DN, at f/1.4:

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Summilux-M 21mm gets closer at f/5.6:

Edited June 16, 2023 by mzbe

[Stuart Richardson]

16 minutes ago, mzbe said:

If MTF is a priority, this is the chart for the Sigma 20mm DG DN, at f/1.4:

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Summilux-M 21mm gets closer at f/5.6:

That’s also not including the effect of using a wide angle M lens on an SL body. In my experience, there is usually a sharpness penalty with M lenses on the Sl2. Not nearly as bad as on non Leica mirrorless cameras, but there nonetheless.  In my experience, the Sigma L mount lenses I have tried are as good or better than most of my M lenses on the SL2. 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Stuart Richardson

[Olaf_ZG]

I have three 24’s: a t/s, a sigma dn and the biogon for the m. I prefer it over 28mm.

That said, I really would like a sl21 to complement the 24’s i have.

[Stuart Richardson]

Indeed, Leica really needs to get the 21mm Summicron out or give an update at the very least. It has been an unreasonably long wait. Or at least say that they have decided not to produce it, so people can move on with their lives as it were.

[Virob]

Waiting in line for the 21/2 SL APO. Meanwhile the Sigma 20/2 is holding the spot. It is a nice little lens. In the full sized image, the barnacles on the rocks are very clear.

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[Olaf_ZG]

I recently bought the sigma 24/2 for an upcoming trip and am very curious how it will behave. I might add the 20/2 or even sell off the SL and move towards another system.

Since I bought the visoflex, my m- lenses remain on the m, though this is why i bought into the sl in the first place: compatibility.

[MakinMemories]

On 6/16/2023 at 2:38 PM, robb said:

One of my favorite lenses is the canon tilt shift 24mm

for interior and exterior architectural photography, it is a most used solution.  

I’ve always owned 24’s.  An m asph elmarit , a Nikon 1.4, a canon 1.4.  I think it is a must.  I use the SL 24-90 at 24 plenty of times… 

to me it’s also an essential for landscape or industrial work.  I think the main reason it’s not a more popular M lens is due to the finder range as the above poster said.  

but now that the 21 is coming, it may do for me all of what I used 24’s for previously.  

Robb

 

The Canon 17mm TS-E also works well (with adaptor of course) on the SL2, mainly got it to take wide interior shots of audio gear. (I am in the high-end audio business)That said, I am really looking forward to the Leica 21mm SL lens!

[cheekz4dayz]

On 6/16/2023 at 1:50 PM, BernardC said:

24/25 is my favourite wide! I guess it depends what you are used to. I especially love it shooting from chest height with subjects around 2m away. You get very natural-looking full length portraits that way.

The reason why there's no 24 in the M system is because it isn't easy to use with the viewfinder. A 28 corresponds to the full VF view for most people, and a 21 definitely needs an external finder (or a feel for 90 degree horizontal coverage). The 24 made sense with the M8, where it had the field of a 35 on full frame, but not as much with the M9 and later cameras.

24 is also a favorite focal length of mine as well. I fell in love with the field of view back when I was shooting with Fujifilm

[helged]

Clearly, wide L-mount primes from Leica will eventually enter the shelves. Prototype of SL21 has been seen and the lens have been promised by Leica officials over the last 1+ year. But still nothing firmly about the release. Either there are issues with the production line, delivery of glass or components or, worse, that the lens needs reconstruction in some way or another. Lets hope that SL21 comes in 2024, as part of Leica's 70th anniversary! Much less - if anything - has been seen/rumored about SL24. So whereas SL21 - in some incsrnation - will 'likely' come, SL24 is more into the blue. On the positive side, Sigma has several excellent wide primes in L-mount.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[helged]

Can't let the SL21Cron thread sleep too deep and too long; anyone with news regarding the lens...?