Third-party lenses

[Anbaric]

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15 hours ago, gargoyle said:

From the viewpoint of a rookie to the world of Leica R cameras I found this an interesting and informative discussion. I just purchased a "new" R9 and 2 lenses (21-35 & 35-70). I did my research in advance and realized the limitations I was buying into but thread answered some questions I still had. My question would be that it would be nice if we could adapt non-Leica glass to an R body as a fully manual lens. My Canon 17mm TS that I sold would have been a very sweet lens on the R9. I guess it just goes with the territory. Digital is behind me now it's all just film going forward!

Unfortunately a Leica R body is about the worst one you could pick for adapting other lenses. Leica R has a longer flange focal distance than nearly any other 35mm system, which means that an adapter would put the lens too far away from the film plane to get infinity focus, unless it had glass elements to correct for this. Otherwise, the original mount on the lens would have to be physically removed and somehow replaced with an R mount, which may or may not be possible depending on the lens design (and the skills of your technician).

[Anbaric]

1 hour ago, Ornello said:

Well, the rangefinder is 'a thing of the past', manual focus is a thing of the past', too! If the M camera line can be continued, why not the R camera line?

Nikon still makes some manual-focus lenses, and the new Z-mount f/0.95 lens is a manual-focus lens.

It's idiotic for Leica to discontinue R production!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/6984380949/leica-financialtrouble

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/2886853854/leciarsystemdiscont

https://leicarumors.com/2010/06/28/leica-camera-ag-back-in-the-profit-zone.aspx/

[Anbaric]

2 hours ago, Ornello said:

 Have you seen 45 year old Nikon Fs? The Photomic meters are useless and cannot be fixed.

Sover Wong can bring a 50 year old Nikon F2 back to factory spec, including the finder. Many would argue that the F2 is as well constructed as any 35mm camera ever made, if you don't mind the size and weight.

[Ornello]

1 hour ago, Anbaric said:

Sover Wong can bring a 50 year old Nikon F2 back to factory spec, including the finder. Many would argue that the F2 is as well constructed as any 35mm camera ever made, if you don't mind the size and weight.

The FTn meters, though, are not fixable, if my info is correct.

[Ornello]

1 hour ago, Anbaric said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/6984380949/leica-financialtrouble

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/2886853854/leciarsystemdiscont

https://leicarumors.com/2010/06/28/leica-camera-ag-back-in-the-profit-zone.aspx/

So where was the demand for the 28mm f/5.6 Summaron lens?

Edited December 8, 2021 by Ornello

[Anbaric]

42 minutes ago, Ornello said:

So where was the demand for the 28mm f/5.6 Summaron lens?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collecting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipster_(contemporary_subculture)

Some people, it seems, will buy anything you can stick on a Leica M, especially if it's 'retro' and you can rave about the bokeh on your blog or YouTube channel. Leica seem to be good at making money these days by appealing to a few specific, affluent demographics and pushing the rangefinder mystique. Everyone wants to be Cartier-Bresson, but hardly anyone can name a famous R photographer (Sebastião Salgado?). The cool role models of the manual focus SLR era used Nikons. Leica weren't making money on the R system in the AF era, and they'd supposedly lost money on the earlier Leicaflex bodies, which were particularly expensive to make (hence the partnership with Minolta).

47 minutes ago, Ornello said:

The FTn meters, though, are not fixable, if my info is correct.

There are sadly lots of cameras where certain faults aren't fixable, some much more recent than a Nikon finder from the 70s, mostly because you can't get the parts (e.g. M9 sensor, M6-TTL circuit board). I wonder if electronic spares for the Minolta era R cameras are still available?

[Sandokan]

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The Nikon F was Nikon's first SLR, and the world first universally adopted 35mm SLR.

It is the same as the 1956 Nikon SP rangefinder camera with a prism grafted on top. Interchangeable prisms are actually because the Nikon was first designed as a rangefinder, not because the world ever needed interchangeable prisms.

While there were German SLRs decades earlier, the Nikon F was the worlds first SLR system that was practical enough to become popular everywhere. This Nikon F is what's been putting LEICA out of business ever since its introduction.

Ultimately, it is the Nikon F which landed Nikon it's place in today's camera world.

The Nikon F works perfectly with any auto- or manual-focus Nikon lens, except G lenses. Its meter, if you have a version with a meter, works perfectly with any lens with an aperture coupling prong

Introduction: June, 1959.

========================= 

Above from Ken Rockwell. 

I have a Nikon F and a metering prism for it that works. Mine dates from about 1968 or 69

[Ornello]

1 hour ago, Sandokan said:

The Nikon F was Nikon's first SLR, and the world first universally adopted 35mm SLR.

It is the same as the 1956 Nikon SP rangefinder camera with a prism grafted on top. Interchangeable prisms are actually because the Nikon was first designed as a rangefinder, not because the world ever needed interchangeable prisms.

While there were German SLRs decades earlier, the Nikon F was the worlds first SLR system that was practical enough to become popular everywhere. This Nikon F is what's been putting LEICA out of business ever since its introduction.

Ultimately, it is the Nikon F which landed Nikon it's place in today's camera world.

The Nikon F works perfectly with any auto- or manual-focus Nikon lens, except G lenses. Its meter, if you have a version with a meter, works perfectly with any lens with an aperture coupling prong

Introduction: June, 1959.

========================= 

Above from Ken Rockwell. 

I have a Nikon F and a metering prism for it that works. Mine dates from about 1968 or 69

Rockwell 'knows' only what he has read somewhere. Occasionally he says something that is not risible, but only occasionally. Photographers tend to be an insecure lot, and copying what others say or do is rife among them. Fads come and go frequently among them for that reason. Leitz was slow to react to the Nikon F, and when they did the resulting products were well-engineered but not particularly impressive to the unwashed. Only four lenses were introduced! The same fate befell Yashica with its Pentamatic, for the same reason. Show me the lenses! The Olympus OM-1 was a big hit when it was introduced, because it was different (small) and it had a large selection of lenses available. Very few photographers  really needed interchangeable finders or screens, but advertising made them think so. It was a solution without a problem. With the Leicaflex SL, Leitz designed and manufactured a brighter, better screen that worked well with almost any lens (and there were special-order screens for special applications), but Leitz hardly ever mentioned this. It was a superior system, but who knew that? The Nikon required the back to be removed to load film, something I found extremely inconvenient.

The combination of poor advertising and short-sightedness from Leitz is what caused their problem. How many filter systems (series 6/7/8, then E48, then E55). What!??!!! How many cam systems? What???!!!

The 35mm Elmarit-R was offered with three different filter sizes (series 6, E48, and E55). The 50mm Summicron-R was offered initially with the series 6, then jumped directly to E55, while the 50mm Summilux-R was offered with the E48, then E55. WHAT????

Both Nikon and Leitz early reflex systems were stupid.

See: https://www.throughthefmount.com/articles_back_early_years.html

Edited December 9, 2021 by Ornello

[Ornello]

On 12/8/2021 at 11:41 AM, Anbaric said:

Unfortunately a Leica R body is about the worst one you could pick for adapting other lenses. Leica R has a longer flange focal distance than nearly any other 35mm system, which means that an adapter would put the lens too far away from the film plane to get infinity focus, unless it had glass elements to correct for this. Otherwise, the original mount on the lens would have to be physically removed and somehow replaced with an R mount, which may or may not be possible depending on the lens design (and the skills of your technician).

Don't forget that starting with the Leicaflex SL2, the mirror retracts as it flips up, giving more clearance. This was done for the Minolta-designed lenses.

[Anbaric]

On 12/8/2021 at 11:31 PM, Sandokan said:

The Nikon F works perfectly with any auto- or manual-focus Nikon lens, except G lenses.

Or 'E' lenses. Or AF-P lenses. Or DX lenses. Nikon lens compatibility is a bit of a minefield, especially to anyone who attempts to mount a pre-AI lens on a later body, which can do physical damage.

[Anbaric]

58 minutes ago, Ornello said:

Don't forget that starting with the Leicaflex SL2, the mirror retracts as it flips up, giving more clearance. This was done for the Minolta-designed lenses.

You're still stuck with that long register distance, though. I assume that's why I haven't seen any Brand X lens to Leica R body adapters, except the Tamron Adaptall mounts and the adapters intended for Visoflex lenses. I suppose you could make an adapter with a correction lens to get infinity focus (there are Brand X lens to Nikon body adapters like this - the Nikon register distance is nearly as long as Leica R - but maybe there's not enough demand to make a Leica R version).

[Ornello]

6 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

You're still stuck with that long register distance, though. I assume that's why I haven't seen any Brand X lens to Leica R body adapters, except the Tamron Adaptall mounts and the adapters intended for Visoflex lenses. I suppose you could make an adapter with a correction lens to get infinity focus (there are Brand X lens to Nikon body adapters like this - the Nikon register distance is nearly as long as Leica R - but maybe there's not enough demand to make a Leica R version).

I own a 50mm Summilux-R Type 2 (takes E60 filters). It was originally a ROM lens, but I had it converted to a 3-cam mount by Leica USA. Although it works perfectly on my Leicaflex SL 2, it does not mount on my Leicaflex SL. I do not know whether they didn't have the right parts to make it fit the SL, or whether it has to have the later mount because the rear element would not clear the mirror of the SL.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Ornello