S3 profiles in LR

[sincurves]

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I notice there are four profiles for S3 in Lightroom:

Color:

Leica S3 Color 

Leica S3 Monochrome

B & W:

Leica S3 Color BW

Leica S3 Monochrome BW

 

I'm unsure what the intended usecase for the various profiles is, anyone know?

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[Stuart Richardson]

Those are the profiles that are supposed to match Leica's color. I believe they are similar or are the embedded profiles. I am not sure about the S3 Color BW profile...that confused me too. The Adobe Color is Adobe's new version, which plays with tonality. Adobe Standard is a more neutral and less tonally adjusted version than Adobe Color, and Adobe Neutral is a linear profile.

I can recommend the Cobalt Profiles for the S3. I think they are a lot better than Adobe's versions, especially for saturated colors and for recovering highlights.

[mgrayson3]

I just tried the Cobalt S3 profiles. They are, indeed, quite good. Leica's own S3 profile is also much better than the Adobe, but can run more saturated than the Cobalt. The Cobalt keeps vegetation from turning yellow and purples from getting over-dark. Very nice!

Edited November 26, 2021 by mgrayson3

[Stuart Richardson]

I also found that for pictures like sunsets, or flash photos of reflective objects (like street signs), the Cobalt has a lot more highlight recovery and better color fidelity in the recovered details. They are also much better in the shadows than the Leica S3 profile, (and my own custom profiles), as pushed detail does not suffer from as much chromatic noise. Overall, I think they are much better profiles than the Adobe/Leica profiles, though in most normal tonal scale photos you will not see such a huge difference. But comparing the cost of the camera to the cost of the profile, it seems like a bargain.

[sincurves]

Thanks for the tip on cobalt profiles. I tried a few portraits where I prefer the profiles in the following order: Cobalt, Adobe Color, Leica S3 Color. Subtle differences, but noticeable on skin in my opinion. Tempting to try their film packs, any experience with these?

[helged]

9 hours ago, sincurves said:

Thanks for the tip on cobalt profiles. I tried a few portraits where I prefer the profiles in the following order: Cobalt, Adobe Color, Leica S3 Color. Subtle differences, but noticeable on skin in my opinion. Tempting to try their film packs, any experience with these?

+1. I wonder the same. The Cobalt profiles are new to me, but I will certainly try (=buy) the basic package. I am more uncertain about the various film packages.

[Dsauro]

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Alternatively, Tony Kuyper has a repository of Linear curve downloads and  of which the S3 profile is available ….and it’s free.  He actually made this profile from my S3!  These are camera specific of course and can be used in LR and ACR.  There is a profile for the SL2 as well but not the M10M.

The linear curve negates the implied curve that Adobe automatically applies. Adobe does this to make the immediate download image look more acceptable right out of the camera.

The linear curve profile is straight data.  When you apply the linear curve profile, the image will look extremely dull in the raw converter.  But what I found is that the camera actually has 1 1/2 to 2 stops of additional headroom in the highlights.  I realized I have been throwing away available data!

Tony has all the information on how to use and apply the profile.

One technique is to apply auto to the linear curve profile and tweak from there.  Or just develop the image step by step.

This may be of interest to those who want to really develop an image and perhaps readjust the capture process in the field, given how much more highlight headroom is really there!  I know I actually have more data available when the histogram suggests overexposure.  I really wish Leica would provide raw histograms!

Just my two cents as to another option

Cheers!

[sincurves]

9 hours ago, helged said:

+1. I wonder the same. The Cobalt profiles are new to me, but I will certainly try (=buy) the basic package. I am more uncertain about the various film packages.

I downloaded the filmpacks and think they are OK. An interesting feature is how it packs the S3 ProPhoto colorspace into an sRGB output. 

[sincurves]

47 minutes ago, Dsauro said:

Alternatively, Tony Kuyper has a repository of Linear curve downloads and  of which the S3 profile is available ….and it’s free.  He actually made this profile from my S3!  These are camera specific of course and can be used in LR and ACR.  There is a profile for the SL2 as well but not the M10M.

The linear curve negates the implied curve that Adobe automatically applies. Adobe does this to make the immediate download image look more acceptable right out of the camera.

The linear curve profile is straight data.  When you apply the linear curve profile, the image will look extremely dull in the raw converter.  But what I found is that the camera actually has 1 1/2 to 2 stops of additional headroom in the highlights.  I realized I have been throwing away available data!

Tony has all the information on how to use and apply the profile.

One technique is to apply auto to the linear curve profile and tweak from there.  Or just develop the image step by step.

This may be of interest to those who want to really develop an image and perhaps readjust the capture process in the field, given how much more highlight headroom is really there!  I know I actually have more data available when the histogram suggests overexposure.  I really wish Leica would provide raw histograms!

Just my two cents as to another option

Cheers!

Great, thanks. Will try Tony’s profile and see how it compares to Cobalt. 

[Dsauro]

Hi Sincurves

Remember, these curves are akin to a block of granite, and you get to chip away and reveal your Pieta! 

[sincurves]

4 hours ago, Dsauro said:

Hi Sincurves

Remember, these curves are akin to a block of granite, and you get to chip away and reveal your Pieta! 

I’m just happy if I can have better colors to work with. I understand these custom profiles gives you a better starting point for an edit; really looking forward to exploring it. Thanks!

[helged]

I have played a little with Tony's linear profile some time ago. More highlight headroom, that's for sure, but a lot of tweaking to get decent colours (for me/my eyes). 

[mgrayson3]

A word of warning about linear profiles in still photography. As the dynamic range of sensors increases, the more information resides in our linearized shots. This leads to something like the HDR hole (google it if that term doesn't resonate. There's a funny, but very true plot of photographer development circulating) - we want to show EVERY bit of light and texture in the final image. All shadows are lifted. All highlights are lowered, selective contrast prevents flatness, but the final image lacks focus. Interesting things are everywhere, and so nothing is interesting. Of course, it's nice to have the data available if needed, but only if it helps and doesn't distract. I spend more time getting rid of unwanted detail than I do preserving it (not to hold myself out as a paragon .. I was told to do this this by a photo instructor).

For example:

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Edited November 28, 2021 by mgrayson3

[helged]

2 hours ago, mgrayson3 said:

A word of warning about linear profiles in still photography. As the dynamic range of sensors increases, the more information resides in our linearized shots. This leads to something like the HDR hole (google it if that term doesn't resonate. There's a funny, but very true plot of photographer development circulating) - we want to show EVERY bit of light and texture in the final image. All shadows are lifted. All highlights are lowered, selective contrast prevents flatness, but the final image lacks focus. Interesting things are everywhere, and so nothing is interesting. Of course, it's nice to have the data available if needed, but only if it helps and doesn't distract. I spend more time getting rid of unwanted detail than I do preserving it (not to hold myself out as a paragon .. I was told to do this this by a photo instructor).

+1. Abrupt/digital highlight clipping is - however - not to my liking. Clearly, this depends on choosing appropriate exposure. Still, files from eg S3 and SLx tends to run into abrupt highlight clipping - at least as long as one relies on one LR profiles. 

[djmay]

I use Lightroom with my S3 profiled with Colorchecker. I also use two custom curves with which I boost the midtones. In many cases this is much better than linear. In some cases the difference is subtle.

[mgrayson3]

2 hours ago, helged said:

+1. Abrupt/digital highlight clipping is - however - not to my liking. Clearly, this depends on choosing appropriate exposure. Still, files from eg S3 and SLx tends to run into abrupt highlight clipping - at least as long as one relies on one LR profiles. 

Putting a shoulder on the bright end of the curve is frequently a good idea. I agree that totally blown out white (or sunset pink turning yellow due to red clipping) is unattractive. Only specular highlights and deliberately white skies need apply. 😆

Edited November 28, 2021 by mgrayson3

[sincurves]

I have attached three samples using different profiles (no edits/corrections except crop/resize/export). The color of the flower is best represented by the Cobalt profile - by quite a margin compared to Leica S3. Adobe Color is a good #2. Leica S3 saturates the red in a way I really like, but it's not a true representation. 

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[tom0511]

So were the flowers orange (like cobalt and adobe profile) or red, like S3 profile?

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[sincurves]

35 minutes ago, tom0511 said:

So were the flowers orange (like cobalt and adobe profile) or red, like S3 profile?

Pale red/orange like the Cobalt & Adobe profile.

[tom0511]

I like the red lips on the third sample (S3) like you said.