Switching to Bulk-loading. IXMOO or Other Options?

[Brancbūth]

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Hello all. I've decided that, in light of Kodak's recent announcement of another round of price increases, I'm going to start bulk-loading 5222 in an effort to be more "economical," whilst till supporting the company. In my head, this makes sense...but maybe not in practice. To the point...

 

There are loads of threads addressing the IXMOO reloadable cassette but their prices have begun to rise significantly recently-- reaching ~80.00 USD/per; at least, that's what I'm seeing for current listings, many of which are outside of the US and subsequently have $20+ shipping charges attached, so I'm looking at around 100 USD for a single cassette that could be found used for around 20-25 USD as recently as a few months ago.

 

Can anyone currently using these cassettes give any guidance as to whether, given their current prices, they're worth committing to? I realize that there are many options out there currently-- attaching to the remaining lead of a "disposable" cassette, Kaiser plastic cassettes, etc. but I'm drawn to the idea that the IXMOO offers a functional advantage when paired with my M3, not to mention the added durability and lessened chance of emulsion scratches. I suppose I'm answering my own question, but I wondered if anyone has any additional insight. Any info is appreciated, critical or otherwise.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Brancbūth
misspelled word.

[oldwino]

I’ve not used he IXMOO, but I understand the advantages to be longevity and quality. Neither of which the cheap reusable plastic cassettes can give you. But at $80 a pop, how many can you afford? Or, how many do you need?

I tend to roll off about 10 cassettes at a time from my bulk rolls, so no way would I want to purchase that many IXMOO. I use the cheapies, which seem to last for two or three uses/rolls before the felt starts to disintegrate. But I can buy at lot of those for $80…

[mikemgb]

I use both IXMOO and FILCA, I'm not sure they are worth $100 each but I definitely prefer them over the plastic cassettes, loading used cartridges has the double risk of scratches and the tape you use to fasten the film coming loose, I've had that happen. Neither the IXMOO or FILCA need tape, and I have never had them scratch film.

Occasionally you can get lucky and find lower price IXMOOs on eBay, I have an alert set and have managed to grab 2 for under $30 each in the last couple of months. Unfortunately it's also not unusual for people not to know what they have and send you a FILCA instead, I've had that happen.

[Brancbūth]

56 minutes ago, oldwino said:

I’ve not used he IXMOO, but I understand the advantages to be longevity and quality. Neither of which the cheap reusable plastic cassettes can give you. But at $80 a pop, how many can you afford? Or, how many do you need?

I tend to roll off about 10 cassettes at a time from my bulk rolls, so no way would I want to purchase that many IXMOO. I use the cheapies, which seem to last for two or three uses/rolls before the felt starts to disintegrate. But I can buy at lot of those for $80…

Right. At $80/per, it's painful enough to purchase the one-- and I'd certainly need two at least. How often, if ever, are you encountering scratched negatives with the felt trap cassettes?

 

53 minutes ago, mikemgb said:

I use both IXMOO and FILCA, I'm not sure they are worth $100 each but I definitely prefer them over the plastic cassettes, loading used cartridges has the double risk of scratches and the tape you use to fasten the film coming loose, I've had that happen. Neither the IXMOO or FILCA need tape, and I have never had them scratch film.

Occasionally you can get lucky and find lower price IXMOOs on eBay, I have an alert set and have managed to grab 2 for under $30 each in the last couple of months. Unfortunately it's also not unusual for people not to know what they have and send you a FILCA instead, I've had that happen.

See, if the advantages were negligible, there would be no question, but they aren't. The notion of scratched film has me leaning in this direction: if I'm gambling with the possibility of scratched negatives every time I load/shoot a roll from a felt trap cassette, then there's no question-- its XMOO or no bulk rolling.

As for the "FILCA, not IXMOO" issue, I'm seeing that as well. Several listings refer to what is definitely a FILCA cassette as an IXMOO. Interestingly, most of these listing are priced much lower than actual IXMOO cassettes, so I don't think it's accidental .

 

Thank you both for your responses.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Brancbūth

[Pyrogallol]

I have a collection of both types of Leica cassettes and like using them, I just seems the right thing to do.

They are available on e bay at various prices, look for them in your own country to keep the postage costs down and wait for cheap ones to turn up. Don’t buy any you see with the side spring bent back.

Have you thought about how you will load them? I use a Watson loader. Some Leica cassettes have thicker cross bars inside the spool that will not fit the Watson  loader winder, not able to check until you examine one. Before I bought that, in the 1970’s, I tied a bulldog clip on a length of string hung from the ceiling, in the dark of course. I clipped the end of the bulk film in the bulldog clip and and unrolled it down until I felt the bottom of the length of string, which I had cut to the length of the film I wanted, cut it at the required length. Then, in the dark, attached the film to the spool with a precut piece of seletape, roll it up and put it in the cassette, remembering to have put the bulk roll back in its box first.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2545226.m570.l1313&_nkw=ixmoo+reloadable+cassette&_sacat=0

Edited November 7, 2021 by Pyrogallol

[Brancbūth]

26 minutes ago, Pyrogallol said:

I have a collection of both types of Leica cassettes and like using them, I just seems the right thing to do.

They are available on e bay at various prices, look for them in your own country to keep the postage costs down and wait for cheap ones to turn up. Don’t buy any you see with the side spring bent back.

Have you thought about how you will load them? I use a Watson loader. Some Leica cassettes have thicker cross bars inside the spool that will not fit the Watson  loader winder, not able to check until you examine one. Before I bought that, in the 1970’s, I tied a bulldog clip on a length of string hung from the ceiling, in the dark of course. I clipped the end of the bulk film in the bulldog clip and and unrolled it down until I felt the bottom of the length of string, which I had cut to the length of the film I wanted, cut it at the required length. Then, in the dark, attached the film to the spool with a precut piece of seletape, roll it up and put it in the cassette, remembering to have put the bulk roll back in its box first.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2545226.m570.l1313&_nkw=ixmoo+reloadable+cassette&_sacat=0

This my plan, more or less-- I'm just going to keep an eye out for less financially-crippling offerings to turn up. As for how I plan to load, I'll almost certainly go with an older Watson model 100. I have read that some prefer to simply cut lengths from a 400 ft. roll and load them directly into the cassettes. I am not brave enough to go this route. Thanks for the reply and for the link.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Brancbūth

[mikemgb]

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1 hour ago, Brancbūth said:

This my plan, more or less-- I'm just going to keep an eye out for less financially-crippling offerings to turn up. As for how I plan to load, I'll almost certainly go with an older Watson model 100. I have read that some prefer to simply cut lengths from a 400 ft. roll and load them directly into the cassettes. I am not brave enough to go this route. Thanks for the reply and for the link.

Set up a search on eBay and have the results emailed to you daily, the email comes through in the early hours of the morning, if you check it early enough you can snag any that were listed late the evening before, that’s how I scored mine. I want another three but I’ll back off for a while while you look, I do at least have a couple. 😁

[chrism]

I use plastic cassettes, and so far have not had either light leaks or scratches. After a few uses the velvet light trap often begins to extrude from the slot, and at that point (4-5 uses) I chuck them out and use a new one.

[Doug A]

I use FILCA cassettes for my Barracks and Nikon cassettes for my Nikon F's. The Watson 100 is definitely the best choice for the FILCA out of the box, but I have also had good luck with modified Alden 74's. I notch the disk that contacts the end of the cassette to leave a space for knob. I have also filed out the notch in the end of the crank to work with the thicker bar in the end of some of the FILCA's. The modified Aldens also work well with the Nikon cassettes, as do similarly modified Watson 66's.

I like working with the Alden 74. The fit and finish are much nicer than the Watson 100. 

I have also used Kodak Snap-Cap cassettes with success when bulk loading for other cameras. 

[nitroplait]

IXMOO, FILCA etc is a hobby in itself. I own a handful of both but they are more charming than practical - which is fine with me.

But with the prices you quote, it is not exactly a money saving proposition as less than a handful cassettes is kind of a drag

For practical purposes I prefer some generic unbranded metal cassettes I bought many years ago, but I am equally happy reusing commercially rolled cassettes and I have never experienced film scratches from grit trapped in the felt during the many years I have rolled film.

If you use the regular cassettes, you are free to chose any bulk loader you fancy - and you can afford to roll the entire bulk roll onto cassettes to free the loader for another film type - should you need that.

[Doug A]

I have a box of ten Kodak Snap-Cap cassettes that I have been using for a number of years. These were sold by Kodak as empty reloadable cassettes. I find it easier to get the cap back onto these than onto some old uncrimped Agfa and Kodak cassettes that I saved 40+ years ago. I have seen no scratches on my negatives that I can attribute to grit in the felt on any of these.

But I do find it less trouble to load my FILCA (and Nikon) cassettes than any of the above. Rather than taping the end of the film to the spool, putting the spool into the cassette, getting the cap back onto the cassette without pulling too much film out into the light and then fitting the cassette into the loader all I have to do with the FILCA is put the cassette in the loader, notch* the end of the film with four snips of the scissors and push the film through the opening of the FILCA into the slot on the spool. 

* I make short crosswise cuts between the third and fourth holes on each side of the film. Then I make lengthwise cuts from the end of the film to meet the crosswise cuts. Then I turn the loader upside down and shake out the two little bits of film that often fall inside 🙂

[qqphot]

I've just bought a couple at $17-$30 which isn't as painful. The only real benefit for me is that they lack the loose fibrous material that cheap modern reloadable canisters shed all over your film and the inside of the camera.  If you're bulk loading in the dark to avoid the ends of your film being pre-fogged, they're a bit of a challenge to load what with having to cut a tongue at the end.

[Brancbūth]

Well…months later, I’ve finally procured 3 IXMOO cassettes which, I think, will be all I need. I didn’t want to start another thread, so I figured I’d revive this one. 
 

In looking at bulk loaders, I see that there are really 3 main options: Watson 66b, Watson 100, and perhaps an Alden 74. My initial plan was to go with the Model 100, as it seems to be the “newest” model and less likely to develop any issues in the short term. I’ve read through some other threads, in which is it suggested that the older Watson 66b (along with the Alden 74) is “better built,” being a heavier bakelite construction; however, others have warned that bakelite eventually becomes brittle, so these models will likely be on their last leg. My eventual plan is to purchase an old AFLOO film winder and set up a dedicated loading space in a future darkroom setup. 
 

I say all that to ask: does anyone have any suggestions, experience, etc. with any of these loaders? Am I maybe overlooking another model which could be a better option?

[Pyrogallol]

As I mentioned in post #5 I am using my Watson loader I bought in the 1970’s, model 100, and the plastic is still ok. I inherited another last year. But I have never found the Leica cassette closing system/wheel to be very good. It doesn’t feel very strong and tends to try and turn the whole cassette round in the loader which could scratch the film. I actually open the lid on the dark and close the cassette mouth by hand. Also some Leica cassettes have a thicker cross bar in the spool that is too thick to engage with the winder handle.

Since I read about the Alden loaders here I have looked at them but they don’t seem to be available on the UK side of the Atlantic.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=alden+74&_sacat=625&LH_PrefLoc=1&_sop=10&_blrs=category_constraint

if you have a fully dark space to use you could start with the bulldog clip and string method I used before the loader, but a loader is best.

[mikemgb]

I have a Watson 66B, a Watson 100 and an Alden 200, the Alden does seem to be built better than the Watsons, and the Watson 66B is built better than the 100, but, all three work very well, I’d suggest just buying the first one you find. 

[Pyrogallol]

My Watson loader also works ok with Contax/ Nikon cassettes, easier than it does with Leica ones. I used one in my Nikon S last week. For Robot cassettes I wind the film into a plastic cassette first and then transfer it by hand into the Robot cassette, remembering that a 20 exposure film is long enough for 30 exposures at 24x24mm in the Robot.

[Brancbūth]

42 minutes ago, mikemgb said:

I’d suggest just buying the first one you find. 

I think that's where I'm getting hung up. They all seem to be readily available, and all in the 20-40 USD range. I think I'll end up going with the Alden, but I wanted to see if anyone had any alternative suggestions. I'm just freaked out over the longevity of bakelite. I think it'll take me quite a while to go through 100' of film, so it would upsetting if the loader developed issues early in the roll.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Brancbūth

[mikemgb]

4 hours ago, Brancbūth said:

I think that's where I'm getting hung up. They all seem to be readily available, and all in the 20-40 USD range. I think I'll end up going with the Alden, but I wanted to see if anyone had any alternative suggestions. I'm just freaked out over the longevity of bakelite. I think it'll take me quite a while to go through 100' of film, so it would upsetting if the loader developed issues early in the roll.

They all seem pretty durable, I don’t think you need to worry about Bakelite, I’m pretty sure my Alden is plastic, and heavy duty at that. The Watson 66B also seems to be a heavy duty plastic. 
 

Interestingly, the Watson 100 is manufactured by Pfeffer, the Watson 66B by Burke and James. 

[105012]

One more downside of the loaders is that the end of your film (the last couple of frames) is likely to be exposed, unlike purchased pre-rolled film. This is because typically the end of your film is connected to the spool in the daylight, before closing the flap and winding on the film. This means you tend to rewind the roll early because you are never quite sure when you have hit the exposed portion. If you can learn to connect up the loader in the dark, you can avoid this, but it reduces the convenience value of the loader...

Hand rolling without a loader eliminates this problem and is possible with either a dark bag in the field or a darkroom. If you use a darkroom, the AFLOO is really handy (avoid the ASPUL).

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[Brancbūth]

3 hours ago, 105012 said:

One more downside of the loaders is that the end of your film (the last couple of frames) is likely to be exposed, unlike purchased pre-rolled film. This is because typically the end of your film is connected to the spool in the daylight, before closing the flap and winding on the film. This means you tend to rewind the roll early because you are never quite sure when you have hit the exposed portion. If you can learn to connect up the loader in the dark, you can avoid this, but it reduces the convenience value of the loader...

Hand rolling without a loader eliminates this problem and is possible with either a dark bag in the field or a darkroom. If you use a darkroom, the AFLOO is really handy (avoid the ASPUL).

Thank you for the heads up. One thing I would like to find out is whether the Alden “clicks” to indicate frame count. I believe that the Watson 100 may do this. That way, I’d be able to use the bulk loader inside of a dark bag without wasting frames, and I could keep the loader inside of a light-right container when not in use in order to preserve the long leader. I would love to pick up an AFLOO, but unfortunately I don’t currently live in a home with any room that I could conveniently block light from, so that method will have to wait.

Edited January 31, 2022 by Brancbūth