From Leica-M system to Leica-Q2

[gettons]

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Hello folks,

 

over the time I have accumulated several cameras (both digital and analog) and I have now reached a point where I feel like I need to simplify my workflow as much as I can. This is because otherwise I am going to use my gear just a little, and it's a waste of both time and money.

 

In order, I have:

 

- M10-R (digital)

- MP (analog)

- 28mm Summilux for M-Mount

- Hasselblad X1DII 50C with 45mm f4 lens

- Hasselblad 503CXi with 80mm Planar

 

I mostly shoot street (both during the night and in sunlight), environmental and a little landscape.

 

Now, the aim is to end up with 1 digital and 1 analog camera, and sell whatever remains. This is to simplify my approach and always have one and only one camera (per type) at hand. Which in turn would make me shoot more and without thinking too much on which one I should pick up for the day.

 

Of the above:

- the Hasselblad 503CXi with 80mm Planar is the analog camera I would like to keep. It's probably my most favourite camera and I adore it

- but what about the digital?

 

However, since 28mm is my favourite focal length,  I thought I would sell/trade in everything (except of the Hasselblad 503CXi with 80mm Planar obviously) and buy myself a Leica Q2.

What I like of the Leica Q2 comapred to the M10-R is that:

- it's almost half the weight

- it is weather sealed (or sort of)

- it would serve me well for landscape when I need it (more than an M10-R I would assume, although for long exposures I might have some problems due to the software limitation of the shutter)

 

Now, considering the low light capabilities of the Q2 and the overall user experience compared to the Leica M system, do you think it is crazy to move from an M10-R+28mm Summilux to a Leica Q2?  Things I am concerned are the high ISO noise of the Q2 when I need to shoot a moving subject, and the OIS can't help here (I normally do not go over 3200/6400, but again street at night can be challenging sometimes).

What do you think about it? Is there anything else I should be aware of?

 

 

Thanks

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by gettons

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[Hemmer]

Disclaimer: Utterly unscientific comment - plus more or less completely discarding your actual question;

How about selling the Hasselblad X1DII 50C + 45mm and getting a Q2;
Then force yourself to use both your new Q2 as well as the M10-R for lets say 2-4 weeks - and based on that decide which one of the two to part with.

My point being: Try to base your decision off of actual personal experience as opposed to "guess and hope".

[trickness]

If you're primarily a street photographer, I think Joel Meyerowitz explains quite clearly what you'll be missing by going to a non-rangefinder system here:

 

[gettons]

5 minutes ago, trickness said:

If you're primarily a street photographer, I think Joel Meyerowitz explains quite clearly what you'll be missing by going to a non-rangefinder system here:

 

thanks for the link, I think I have seen this before, but I re-watched it again.

This is the thing, there is a difference between a rangefinder style and a rangefinder itself. The Q2 is a rangefinder style camera (such as the X-Pro 3, meaning your left eye would be free to roam and watch what's happening. Differently from what, say, a Fuji XT3 does. And this is what Joel points out.

However, what the Q2 is missing is a rangefinder, due to the fact it has an EVF. Now, considering I have 0.72 viewfinder on my M10-R and I use 28mm, the advantage of having a real rangefinder is not huge (because I can see very little outside the frame).

 

All in all, I get your point, but I do not think this aspect would impact too much my streetphotography.

[gettons]

14 minutes ago, Hemmer said:

Disclaimer: Utterly unscientific comment - plus more or less completely discarding your actual question;

How about selling the Hasselblad X1DII 50C + 45mm and getting a Q2;
Then force yourself to use both your new Q2 as well as the M10-R for lets say 2-4 weeks - and based on that decide which one of the two to part with.

My point being: Try to base your decision off of actual personal experience as opposed to "guess and hope".

That's definitely an option, the only thing is it's much simpler to trade in used Leica gear and get a Leica camera than trading in the Hasselblad to a conventional shop and get decent money.

[ravinj]

6 hours ago, gettons said:

Hello folks,

 

over the time I have accumulated several cameras (both digital and analog) and I have now reached a point where I feel like I need to simplify my workflow as much as I can. This is because otherwise I am going to use my gear just a little, and it's a waste of both time and money.

 

In order, I have:

 

- M10-R (digital)

- MP (analog)

- 28mm Summilux for M-Mount

- Hasselblad X1DII 50C with 45mm f4 lens

- Hasselblad 503CXi with 80mm Planar

 

I mostly shoot street (both during the night and in sunlight), environmental and a little landscape.

 

Now, the aim is to end up with 1 digital and 1 analog camera, and sell whatever remains. This is to simplify my approach and always have one and only one camera (per type) at hand. Which in turn would make me shoot more and without thinking too much on which one I should pick up for the day.

 

Of the above:

- the Hasselblad 503CXi with 80mm Planar is the analog camera I would like to keep. It's probably my most favourite camera and I adore it

- but what about the digital?

 

However, since 28mm is my favourite focal length,  I thought I would sell/trade in everything (except of the Hasselblad 503CXi with 80mm Planar obviously) and buy myself a Leica Q2.

What I like of the Leica Q2 comapred to the M10-R is that:

- it's almost half the weight

- it is weather sealed (or sort of)

- it would serve me well for landscape when I need it (more than an M10-R I would assume, although for long exposures I might have some problems due to the software limitation of the shutter)

 

Now, considering the low light capabilities of the Q2 and the overall user experience compared to the Leica M system, do you think it is crazy to move from an M10-R+28mm Summilux to a Leica Q2?  Things I am concerned are the high ISO noise of the Q2 when I need to shoot a moving subject, and the OIS can't help here (I normally do not go over 3200/6400, but again street at night can be challenging sometimes).

What do you think about it? Is there anything else I should be aware of?

 

 

Thanks

 

I have gone back and forth on this many times. Bought and sold Q2 and M10 many times. BUT, always missed the rangefinder. After recently acquiring an M10-R and 28 Summilux, I sold off the Q2. Reason: I have other M lenses (35 fle etc) that I want to be able to use and with the 40MP on M10-R, ability to resolve details is no less than Q2. Colors are wonderful with both, but I prefer the M10-R more.

I was stunned when I saw the results from the M10-R and 28 Lux for the first time. I don't need AF, so it was and easy decision which one to keep. 

Q2 can certainly be that one single camera if you love 28mm and with cropping upto 50mm equivalent is excellent to my eyes. High ISO noise is acceptable and you can shoot it at slower shutter speeds and keep ISO low for static objects. I see it as a "no-brainer" camera - just take and start shooting, no need to overload the brain thinking which lens to take. Stellar IQ that is unmatched in this size and weight and totally worth the price.

I also have the Hasselblad X1DII with 45p, and other xcd lenses including the xcd 80. Now that is another league and if I had to take just one camera and lens for street, it would be the X1D with 45p. The colors and dynamic range are unmatched in my view. Where the Q2 starts to clip highlights easily in extreme contrasty scenes, X1D is still sailing smoothly without the need to dial down exposure. On the other hand it is a very slow camera which suits me just fine as I would rather come back with fewer pictures that literally pop-off the screen. The results from this combo are so good (again to me, others can feel differently) that now my M10-R is a "backup" to X1D.

Edited September 30, 2021 by ravinj

[NZDavid]

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To each his or her own, and I think you have answered your own question very well: Go for it! But of course you need to try to rationalize your decision.

I think a lot depends on your favorite focal length and the 28 with occasional cropping should fit the bill.

I have been using the X series as an alternative but keep coming back to the M10 as my favorite; I like the handling, capabilities, process, and of course the results. Maybe I should also try out a Q?

 

[gettons]

9 hours ago, ravinj said:

I have gone back and forth on this many times. Bought and sold Q2 and M10 many times. BUT, always missed the rangefinder. After recently acquiring an M10-R and 28 Summilux, I sold off the Q2. Reason: I have other M lenses (35 fle etc) that I want to be able to use and with the 40MP on M10-R, ability to resolve details is no less than Q2. Colors are wonderful with both, but I prefer the M10-R more.

I was stunned when I saw the results from the M10-R and 28 Lux for the first time. I don't need AF, so it was and easy decision which one to keep. 

Q2 can certainly be that one single camera if you love 28mm and with cropping upto 50mm equivalent is excellent to my eyes. High ISO noise is acceptable and you can shoot it at slower shutter speeds and keep ISO low for static objects. I see it as a "no-brainer" camera - just take and start shooting, no need to overload the brain thinking which lens to take. Stellar IQ that is unmatched in this size and weight and totally worth the price.

I also have the Hasselblad X1DII with 45p, and other xcd lenses including the xcd 80. Now that is another league and if I had to take just one camera and lens for street, it would be the X1D with 45p. The colors and dynamic range are unmatched in my view. Where the Q2 starts to clip highlights easily in extreme contrasty scenes, X1D is still sailing smoothly without the need to dial down exposure. On the other hand it is a very slow camera which suits me just fine as I would rather come back with fewer pictures that literally pop-off the screen. The results from this combo are so good (again to me, others can feel differently) that now my M10-R is a "backup" to X1D.

Thank you so much for your feedback! It's definitely a first world problem and I am fully aware of that, but still...

I love how the Leica M-system and Hasselblad X system slow me down, so it's not a matter for me to have a *fast* camera, not at all. Apart from the Q2 vs M10-R matter, the reason behind which I was thinking about selling the Hasselblad too is that on the streets the Leica is a tad faster and I do not shoot with the Hasselblad much apart from some landscape (very unfrequently).

 

 

[gettons]

6 hours ago, NZDavid said:

To each his or her own, and I think you have answered your own question very well: Go for it! But of course you need to try to rationalize your decision.

I think a lot depends on your favorite focal length and the 28 with occasional cropping should fit the bill.

I have been using the X series as an alternative but keep coming back to the M10 as my favorite; I like the handling, capabilities, process, and of course the results. Maybe I should also try out a Q?

 

Lol, I get your point. Again the only thing I dislike of the M10s is just the fact they are bulkier and (to me at least) seem more fragile than Qs.

[tom0511]

I had a Q2 once, later said to me to just use the M10r and 28+50 instead. (also own some more M lenses)

Now I sometimes miss the Q2 because it is somewhat lighter and faster (AF) and more compact (a little).

I would never give up the M10r in favor of a Q2, but still rethinking to buy a Q2 again, for casual , low weight occasions. (bike tour, hiking, party, family).

Some friends including me sometimes had the feeling, with the Q2 it is allmost to easy to take images, and therefore less fun. 

 

[PhotoCruiser]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb tom0511:

Some friends including me sometimes had the feeling, with the Q2 it is allmost to easy to take images, and therefore less fun. 

 

Why it's too easy?

I had a lot of cameras, starting as a kid with dad's Leica, then analog reflex and the last one the awesome Nikon D800 with all prime lenses.
I really enjoyed the D800 and the kit lenses I have but hauling the whole camera bag around the world became lately just a PITA.

Then I was reading some articles about the Q2 and so I bought her for a 6 months road trip in Southern Europe and I got addicted to her.

The only thing I miss is my 105mm Macro lens, all other focal lenses can either be replaced by the Q2 or I almost never use it like 20mm+ tele lens.

Coming from swappable lens cameras to a fixed lens camera needs some practice and gives some frustration in the beginning,
but once got used to it it becomes simply too handy and is perfect for my normal kind of photography I do.

However, I suggest everybody to rent the camera for a long weekend to give her a extended trial time just to check if the camera fit the need.

Chris

 

[tharsh]

After 50 years of schlepping camera gear around from many manufacturers in  many bags or hardcases I picked up the Q2 as my final camera.  I have only had it a few weeks but it is what I now want for my photography.    I am keeping some of my specialty systems like a mirrorless full frame with a prime 600 for wildlife and sports but the rest are all going.   I now have more post imaging workflow but part of my transition is moving from having it all come out of the camera as a final to editing in a method of reflection allowing me to design or tune the image.  So less images in total but more in which I am content having.  And as far as the Q2 the images are simply amazing.  At this point in time it has come down to sensor sensor sensor and of course the unassuming but simply marvelous matched lens.  I am free from lens selection of which it never ends.  I am free from camera stores and endless purchases.  I may pick up the monochrome model also!  

[tom0511]

vor einer Stunde schrieb PhotoCruiser:

Why it's too easy?

.....

Chris

 

A little difficult to describe. What I mean - with a Leica M I 1) choose a focal length and a lens 2) focus (manual) 3) have to be more active regarding right exposure....

With the Q2 ...I just switch on, choose aparture and fire aways. I can use face detection, exp metering works very reliable, etc. All this is very good and makes life easy in a way but in another way I feel more passive, allmost like the camera takes the image for me.

I find this appealing for certain occasions (and indeed I am thinking about buying a Q2 again), but sometimes when I am ready to spend more time I also like the more "manual" approach of the M.

 

[ajmarton1]

IMHO - I would not limit myself to just a couple of cameras.  I have the full range of the Leica film RFs from the M3 to the M7 and M10M for digital.  Each camera body offers a slightly different experience and I enjoy using them all regardless of the limited time with each body.   I am currently shooting with my Nikon FM3a - the last and best film camera made by Nikon.  All of them bring me joy when I decide to put a roll through them.  And I have the Hasselblad 500cm and Mamiya 7 for medium format.  I ditched the Q, Q2, SL and M10P.  But for wildlife and dynamic/action I am using a Sony Alpha 1 and Canon R5 due to the superior AF tracking (with manual settings).  So I don't think you can go wrong with keeping a variety of camera bodies to use for a particular outing.  

[kentroberts]

1 hour ago, tharsh said:

After 50 years of schlepping camera gear around from many manufacturers in  many bags or hardcases I picked up the Q2 as my final camera.  I have only had it a few weeks but it is what I now want for my photography.    I am keeping some of my specialty systems like a mirrorless full frame with a prime 600 for wildlife and sports but the rest are all going.   I now have more post imaging workflow but part of my transition is moving from having it all come out of the camera as a final to editing in a method of reflection allowing me to design or tune the image.  So less images in total but more in which I am content having.  And as far as the Q2 the images are simply amazing.  At this point in time it has come down to sensor sensor sensor and of course the unassuming but simply marvelous matched lens.  I am free from lens selection of which it never ends.  I am free from camera stores and endless purchases.  I may pick up the monochrome model also!  

I agree with thrash. I'm at a stage in life where more tools, more options, more decisions, isn't a benefit anymore. Others are at a different stage in their life/career so they may prefer to have many options, more power to them.

[mbphotox]

You could also just get this one..

https://www.hasselblad.com/v-system/907x-50c/

Works with the Lens from the X1D, and the digital back can be mounted to the 503cxi

If I HAD a 500series Hasselblad that sells for north of 3 grand these days, I would most definitely get me that digital back for it.

1 Camera, just swap between digital and analog backs.

And the 907x can be used to shoot the 45p too.

[Kreeshp]

6 hours ago, tom0511 said:

Some friends including me sometimes had the feeling, with the Q2 it is allmost to easy to take images, and therefore less fun. 

I agree with this.  I think most Leica users enjoy a challenge.  It's part of the appeal of using the rangefinder system.

I owned at the same time, and used to carry together: a Q-P, M10-P and a Q2M.
I found over time that I preferred shooting with the M10-P over the Q-P because the process was more deliberate and engaging.  The Q-P felt like a camera phone on steroids and I concluded that if I wanted a lightweight, relatively high-quality camera, I was better off shooting exclusively with my iphone 12 Pro Max, so I sold the Q-P with no regrets.

The Q2M is a different game though.  I want the autofocus and auto exposure so I can concentrate solely on framing and positioning the graphic elements in my composition.  I find the ideal pair for me is the Q2M and the M10-P.

[_Michael]

3 hours ago, tharsh said:

After 50 years of schlepping camera gear around from many manufacturers in  many bags or hardcases I picked up the Q2 as my final camera.  I have only had it a few weeks but it is what I now want for my photography.    I am keeping some of my specialty systems like a mirrorless full frame with a prime 600 for wildlife and sports but the rest are all going.   I now have more post imaging workflow but part of my transition is moving from having it all come out of the camera as a final to editing in a method of reflection allowing me to design or tune the image.  So less images in total but more in which I am content having.  And as far as the Q2 the images are simply amazing.  At this point in time it has come down to sensor sensor sensor and of course the unassuming but simply marvelous matched lens.  I am free from lens selection of which it never ends.  I am free from camera stores and endless purchases.  I may pick up the monochrome model also!  

This is the path I am on, but with "only" 40 years give or take of schlepping.   The Q2 is a remarkably capable camera. 28mm has become a better all-around focal length than I had thought prior to jumping into the original Q. I've pretty much always been a 35-50mm person but also still have a big Canon rig for long focal length. (but hate lugging it around).  

I recently acquired a Q2M and it's really incredible. It has opened my eyes to some new approaches and new satisfaction, and that's frankly a bit difficult to do sometimes. My in-head debate now is how I streamline and support color. For casual stuff, it's easy. The approximately 28mm 1x focal the iPhone Pro is pretty incredible. Not going make large prints with it of course, but more than capable for casual.   For better results I am moving away from M (I think). The EVF advantages...especially with the lack of delay in the image...are solid, so it's a Q2 or stay with the SL I have and have flexibility. Yes, its bigger than the Q and a M body, but for me at 6'3" and XL hands it is not significant.  Currently a strong lean towards Q2 and calling it done. 

At least until I start arguing with myself again.

 

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[gettons]

53 minutes ago, Kreeshp said:

The Q2M is a different game though.  I want the autofocus and auto exposure so I can concentrate solely on framing and positioning the graphic elements in my composition.  I find the ideal pair for me is the Q2M and the M10-P.

You are saying that, cause you need to concentrate on framing and composition, you prefer a camera with autofocus and auto exposure. And for this reason you kept the Q2M?

[_Michael]

1 hour ago, Kreeshp said:

I agree with this.  I think most Leica users enjoy a challenge.  It's part of the appeal of using the rangefinder system.

<snip>

The Q2M is a different game though.  I want the autofocus and auto exposure so I can concentrate solely on framing and positioning the graphic elements in my composition.  I find the ideal pair for me is the Q2M and the M10-P.

To the first point, man, I don't know about others but I for one have more than enough challenges in my life. Sometimes less is better. But I get the full creative context of this. 

I do find your last point interesting. I get the AE part of it to a point, but I've found that I'm more comfortable shooting manual with the Q2M, though my time with it is extremely limited so far.