Abracadaben Posted September 16, 2021 Share #1 Posted September 16, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) So I saw in a few online reviews that the Q2 handled noise pretty badly when lifting the shadows at high ISO. I did experience that with LR (latest version). Starting mostly at ISO 2500 and worse higher. The problem shows really at shadows +50 and over. But it seemed really odd to me that it would be that bad. Especially because it kinda looks like it blinks past +50 shadows.... I tried C1Pro and did not have any of that bad noise at all..... I did see similar behavior with the SL2. looks bad in LR, no problem in C1Pro. So its not a hardware issue. plus Ive seen reviews on youtube where them mention it too (thinking its a Q2 issue) I tried Firmware 3 and 3.1. same thing. Exports look as bad as previews in LR. I tried different NR settings etc... That seems really odd for LR to handle DNG files that bad :(. I use LR for my workflow and Id be bumed to move to C1Pro.... Any thoughts/feedback? I put a crop of one of the pics to show the bad noise in LR. But here are 2 pics. one from C1Pro looking fine and the other from LR looking bad. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ev8ZvzHLfUCnA5kpoLCOhauSXklMar3b/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1--dQTAXHEvSVmK5R-Up4Y-1B_DYxXNv_/view?usp=sharing Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/324571-q2-high-iso-and-shadows-in-lightroom/?do=findComment&comment=4275932'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 16, 2021 Posted September 16, 2021 Hi Abracadaben, Take a look here Q2 High ISO and shadows in lightroom. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Abracadaben Posted September 16, 2021 Author Share #2 Posted September 16, 2021 I checked other DNG files from other Q2 with even other firmware (2.01). and its the same behavior. lifting shadows at high ISO on LR looks really ugly past +50. C1Pro 21 no issue. I tried Photoshop too same thing. I tried iPhoto as well and I don't see the issue. So I really wonder if its not an ACR issue. I dont recall being shoked by it before. but I rarely lift up shadows at high ISO. But the experience also made me notice that C1Pro handles the shadow recovery even better at low ISO. so much better than LR. I havent necessarily seen such difference with other cameras when I previously tried C1Pro previous versions (2020) weird. Its bummer because I would rather not change workflow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted September 16, 2021 Share #3 Posted September 16, 2021 which one is cheaper to replace ? Q2 or LR ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abracadaben Posted September 16, 2021 Author Share #4 Posted September 16, 2021 lol. I guess its a toss. its not just about $. but I wonder if its a known issue that might get fixed. Im also not sure if its in recent versions of ACR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M11 for me Posted September 16, 2021 Share #5 Posted September 16, 2021 (edited) Well, LR is much more than a post processing tool. Its my database. I have all keywords there and on top it hosts my Smugmug Website. The last move i had to do a few years ago was the move from Aperture to Lightroom. I would not like to experience that every few years. On the other hand I feel that Photography is about light. So in dark areas there is evidently no light and I try to accept that. Since then I have very rarely problems with shadows with my M10 or Q2 (or Canon). Im must add that this was different a few years ago 5D Mk II or III. Here the M10 with 35mm Summilux at f/1.4, 1/30s and ISO 640: I could have taken that shot at ISO 6400 or more with 1/60s or shorter. The result would be different. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited September 16, 2021 by M10 for me 3 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/324571-q2-high-iso-and-shadows-in-lightroom/?do=findComment&comment=4276218'>More sharing options...
Abracadaben Posted September 16, 2021 Author Share #6 Posted September 16, 2021 yea with the M10 no issues. Its the shadow slider. past 50 it acts up crazy. If you stick to the curve sliders it seems there is no issue raising the shadows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpoppes Posted September 17, 2021 Share #7 Posted September 17, 2021 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) I know this is off topic and don't want to highjack the initials poster's issue. So please let me know if you want me to take this down. I just loaded LR again after moving to C1 a few years ago. I noticed a difference in basic import with both standard Adobe profiles (C1 with Leica was pretty much the same). Loaded the images and put them next to each other. Highlights and contrast showed a bit of difference. Below the sample image where you can see the difference. C1=left, LR=right. In the full sized image you can see LR has a very grey look. the C1 shows more the way I saw it on that day. You can see the blue sky in the right corner is more profound in C1 and the water in LR is very grey. I know it can all be adjust but was interesting to see. The reason for checking out Lightroom is because I was contemplating buying the Retouching Toolkit (https://www.vfpresets.com/lightroom-retouching-toolkit/). Rudi. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited September 17, 2021 by rpoppes Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/324571-q2-high-iso-and-shadows-in-lightroom/?do=findComment&comment=4276559'>More sharing options...
rpoppes Posted September 17, 2021 Share #8 Posted September 17, 2021 Tried LR classic? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abracadaben Posted September 17, 2021 Author Share #9 Posted September 17, 2021 yea this is in LR classic. Interestingly when changing calibration to engine 1 or 2 it doesnt happen. When changing engine to 3 or 4 it reverts automatically to 5 when moving the slider. RE your import LR and C1Pro apply different curves on import. Adobe offers a flat start. P1 puts a lot into creating curves for each camera they support etc. and they try to offer an "opotimal" start. Its very subjective though. I know sometimes I like it and sometimes I dont. They tend to sharpen a lot IMO. But they also have an Adobe profile curve that gives you the same import curve and look as adobe. I personally prefer LR for my workflow. Both are great. but for me its LR. C1P is a learning curve I dont want/need. And C1P seems slow to me (I never really dug why but C1P 2021 doesnt seem faster either. changes arent always instant. loading pics takes time etc...) So really for me Im not willing to change tool because 1 camera doesnt fit in. as much as I like the Q2 if Adobe doesnt fix the issue, Id use it less and less... I have other cameras for other purpose and they work just great with LR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven_nl Posted September 22, 2021 Share #10 Posted September 22, 2021 Hi I have read your comments with a lot of interest and I fully agree. Raising the shadows can lead to a lot of noise. It seems to me that the noise does not get so bad when you raise the exposure (quite a lot). Of course this is not the same as raising the shadows, but it could be a starting piont to a slghtly different aproach (for the time being??) dropping the highlights a bit or playing with the tone curve. But like you I think there is something strange in the behaviour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abracadaben Posted September 22, 2021 Author Share #11 Posted September 22, 2021 2 hours ago, Steven_nl said: Hi I have read your comments with a lot of interest and I fully agree. Raising the shadows can lead to a lot of noise. It seems to me that the noise does not get so bad when you raise the exposure (quite a lot). Of course this is not the same as raising the shadows, but it could be a starting piont to a slghtly different aproach (for the time being??) dropping the highlights a bit or playing with the tone curve. But like you I think there is something strange in the behaviour. I also tried just using the sliders in the tone curve which has a bit more control than exposure. it works fine but it doesnt have the same control as shadows which applies a mask. It does look like it could be an issue with the mask and at some point there is a specific level of noise that jumps in luminosity like 10x. definitely not normal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven_nl Posted September 22, 2021 Share #12 Posted September 22, 2021 Could it be that 50 on the shows is actually 100? And 100 is just over de top? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abracadaben Posted September 22, 2021 Author Share #13 Posted September 22, 2021 I thought the same. it could around that 50-60. thats when you see things jumping off suddenly to unrealistic stuff. I posted on Adobe community to report a bug we will see. I think it does the same with the SL2. you'd think that Adobe would handle DNG better Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven_nl Posted September 22, 2021 Share #14 Posted September 22, 2021 I will keep following your topic! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tippingpoint Posted January 31, 2022 Share #15 Posted January 31, 2022 Any update on this? I am experiencing exactly the same. As I am still within the return period, I am actually considering returning the Q2 because this level of (perceived) bad high ISO performance really took me by surprise. I initially thought something’s not right with my sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 1, 2022 Share #16 Posted February 1, 2022 Simpler to get Topaz Denoise AI or use DXO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted February 2, 2022 Share #17 Posted February 2, 2022 On 1/31/2022 at 1:28 PM, Tippingpoint said: Any update on this? I am experiencing exactly the same. As I am still within the return period, I am actually considering returning the Q2 because this level of (perceived) bad high ISO performance really took me by surprise. I initially thought something’s not right with my sensor. Q2 is not the best at high ISO, but even the Q2M and M10M can't fully resurrect grossly underexposed nighttime shadows without issue. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Posted February 2, 2022 Share #18 Posted February 2, 2022 11 minutes ago, hdmesa said: Q2 is not the best at high ISO, but even the Q2M and M10M can't fully resurrect grossly underexposed nighttime shadows without issue. Agree with you, no resurrect. But almost By Q2M Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/324571-q2-high-iso-and-shadows-in-lightroom/?do=findComment&comment=4374420'>More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted February 2, 2022 Share #19 Posted February 2, 2022 2 minutes ago, Dennis said: Agree with you, no resurrect. But almost By Q2M Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! That looks great. What ISO? What does it look like if you max out the shadow recovery slider? I think a lot of folks try that with the Q2 and don't understand they're asking too much from most any color camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Posted February 2, 2022 Share #20 Posted February 2, 2022 3 minutes ago, hdmesa said: That looks great. What ISO? What does it look like if you max out the shadow recovery slider? I think a lot of folks try that with the Q2 and don't understand they're asking too much from most any color camera. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/324571-q2-high-iso-and-shadows-in-lightroom/?do=findComment&comment=4374423'>More sharing options...
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