M7 on/off switch

[Steven Seven]

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As much as I love the M7, the on/off switch is hugely annoying. My M6 TTL also has it but I never set it to OFF, because the meter won't activate unless you cock the shutter AND press the button, which is impossible to happen accidentally.

For the M7 even the manual says that it drains a bit of battery unless the stupid switch is set to OFF. But Ken Rockwell on his M7 page states that the switch is just a safety feature exactly how it was on the M6 TTL. I suppose I can just try following his advice and see how long a battery will last, but I have nothing to compare the results to, I am still on my first battery.

Any long time M7 owners out there who've been ignoring the existence of that switch? Also, how does a dying battery affect camera operation? Are there any early signs? On the M6 TTL the meter just starts erratically blinking, giving me a bit of a heads up.

Thanks.

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[Matlock]

42 minutes ago, Steven Seven said:

As much as I love the M7, the on/off switch is hugely annoying. My M6 TTL also has it but I never set it to OFF, because the meter won't activate unless you cock the shutter AND press the button, which is impossible to happen accidentally.

For the M7 even the manual says that it drains a bit of battery unless the stupid switch is set to OFF. But Ken Rockwell on his M7 page states that the switch is just a safety feature exactly how it was on the M6 TTL. I suppose I can just try following his advice and see how long a battery will last, but I have nothing to compare the results to, I am still on my first battery.

Any long time M7 owners out there who've been ignoring the existence of that switch? Also, how does a dying battery affect camera operation? Are there any early signs? On the M6 TTL the meter just starts erratically blinking, giving me a bit of a heads up.

Thanks.

The on/off switch on the M7 is totally different to the arrangement on the M6TTL on which the speed dial has to be set to off so I don't quite see what you are getting at. The M7 switch is fine and it takes only a fraction of a second to move it from off to on. As to Ken Rockwell I think anything he says needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.

 

[wattsy]

Yes. never had a problem with the switch. It's one of those things that becomes instinctive after a short period of use.

[Steven Seven]

Sorry for misunderstanding. I wasn't asking if the OFF switch is fine and if I can get used to it. That is crystal clear. It's not fine. And I will never get used to it. Cameras are not supposed to have an ON/OFF switch. Leica's interview process at the time allowed a bad apple into their engineering department.

I was asking if anyone uses their M7 with the switch in permanently ON position and what kind of battery life penalty to expect. Thanks.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Steven Seven

[jukka]

59 minutes ago, Steven Seven said:

I was asking if anyone uses their M7 with the switch in permanently ON position and what kind of battery life penalty to expect. Thanks.

Yeah, I forget the switch on all the time. Never noticed any battery life penalty. 

 

59 minutes ago, Steven Seven said:

 It's not fine. And I will never get used to it. Cameras are not supposed to have an ON/OFF switch. Leica's interview process at the time allowed a bad apple into their engineering department.

Seriously, what is it with the M7 that attracts the negativity? I'll add the on/off switch to the many problems of the M7 then – oh dear.

Edited September 15, 2021 by jukka

[Matlock]

1 hour ago, Steven Seven said:

 Cameras are not supposed to have an ON/OFF switch. Leica's interview process at the time allowed a bad apple into their engineering department.

 

What a very strange statement, Let's see. Minolta TC-1, Fuji DL, Konica  Hexar RF. Canon EOS Iv and many, many more all have ON/OFF switches. Did they all have bad apples in their engineering departments? or maybe they poached them from Leica? 

[Helge]

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I don‘t know any battery-operated camera that does not has an on/off switch or an equivalent of it.

If you want a camera without it, by an M-A.

[earleygallery]

1 hour ago, Helge said:

I don‘t know any battery-operated camera that does not has an on/off switch or an equivalent of it.

If you want a camera without it, by an M-A.

My Pentax Spotmatic F doesn't have any on/off switch, but the meter is always on until you put the lens cap back on the lens.

 

[105012]

5 hours ago, Helge said:

I don‘t know any battery-operated camera that does not has an on/off switch or an equivalent of it.

If you want a camera without it, by an M-A.

Leica M5 (uses battery for meter) has no on/off switch.

[Steven Seven]

7 hours ago, jukka said:

Yeah, I forget the switch on all the time. Never noticed any battery life penalty.

Seriously, what is it with the M7 that attracts the negativity? I'll add the on/off switch to the many problems of the M7 then – oh dear.

Thank you for being the only person responding who tried to answer the question! I was so fed up with the switch, and just started ignoring it and keeping it in always-on position. I'm on my second month and the 3rd roll. If I get to 6+ months and 30+ rolls I'll be happy. By the way, the M7 is not just my favorite Leica by far, it's my all time favorite camera (digital or film, regardless of the negative size), that's why I am so disappointed by this ridiculous thing, it's a highly visible sore on the otherwise perfect camera.

I hoped to avoid the pointless debate on awkwardness of the switch. Anyone with experience with other cameras is well-aware of much more elegant solutions: FM3a switches on/off via rewind lever, Fuji GF670 and Leica M6 turn power on/off via a shutter button when the shutter is cocked, and numerous other cameras have the switch but it's a purely safety switch, doesn't affect battery life, and is documented as such. All of those options are obviously superior to this retarded turn-me-off-otherwise-I-eat-your-battery-while-doing-nothing behavior. It wasn't even a question.

The question was purely about the battery life cost of their engineering fuckup.

P.S. There are other badly engineered cameras, of course. That's why I don't own them and see no point at using them as examples. Just because someone else failed a simple engineering challenge doesn't mean I'm going to shift my definition of what good looks like.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Steven Seven

[Kriehuber]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb 105012:

Leica M5 (uses battery for meter) has no on/off switch.

Yes but the M5 isn't battery operated. Only the meter needs the battery. 

[105012]

12 minutes ago, Kriehuber said:

Yes but the M5 isn't battery operated. Only the meter needs the battery. 

Correct, that is why I said "uses battery for meter", but Steven's point holds, there is really no need for an explicit on/off switch with a bit of thought to the design.

[jukka]

4 hours ago, Steven Seven said:

I'm on my second month and the 3rd roll.

Well, since you don't shoot so often you might feel the use of an on/off switch cumbersome? As said, I have left the switch on for months, for instance in the summer when I shoot constantly or when traveling for a longer time. Then when I don't use the M7 its good to have it switched off – just for peace of mind, so to speak. Quite often I also switch the camera off for the night and restart it in the morning. This is not exactly a big deal

It seems to me you can leave it on bulb though. Sure, when opening the shutter the countdown starts, but it should not drain the batteries before that.

4 hours ago, Steven Seven said:

Anyone with experience with other cameras is well-aware of much more elegant solutions:

I have an Olympus 35sp which in fact does not have any on/off switch. When not in use, it needs either to be stored in dark or batteries taken out, which is annoying. I've also used extensively Nikon film bodies and Voigtlanders, and don't remember ever considering different on/off solutions presenting a considerable challenge or an advantage. Oh well. 

[Helge]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Kriehuber:

Yes but the M5 isn't battery operated. Only the meter needs the battery. 

The M5 switches the meter off after taking a photo and before transporting the film, that's what I would call an 'equivalent' of a switch. You call that elegant, I call it nagging, because it requires transporting the film in a moment where you could have taken a picture. And you can't take this "switch on" even back anymore.

That is one of the major reasons, why other cameras have a switsch, it gives you all freedom you need.

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Steven Seven:

..

The question was purely about the battery life cost of their engineering fuckup.

P.S. There are other badly engineered cameras, of course. That's why I don't own them and see no point at using them as examples. Just because someone else failed a simple engineering challenge doesn't mean I'm going to shift my definition of what good looks like.

I think you just have no technical background at all or let's say higher education. It is neither a simple challenge nor is the outcome (using a switch) a bad result, its is exactly what is required.
Reading you "special" language - maybe you are just a troll who even doesn't own any camera (for sure no Leica) 😀

Especially if switching-on and -off is somehow to much for you, some very simple camera might be what you need ...

[Vlad Soare]

I think what sets the M7 apart from cameras which use batteries but don't have an on/off switch is that the M7 is itself battery-operated. Not just the meter. Many mechanical cameras that use a battery exclusively for the meter have no power switch. But I'd be hard-pressed to name a camera which is itself powered by batteries and doesn't have one.

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Vlad Soare

[Helge]

Even all the other cameras have a switch, with that exception of that Olympus (and maybe some others with same buggy design or really very low battery consumption) that requires to either store it in darkness or take the batteries out 😜 (I would call that a real bad engineering).

Even a meter requires some significant current, if it is not this simple (even in total darkness).

The others just use some other function reducing functionality and reducing degree of freedom like using the lever.. 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Helge

[Vlad Soare]

Not necessarily. My Bessa R3M doesn't have a switch. The lightmeter wakes up when you press the shutter release button halfway and goes back to sleep afterwards. And it can sleep for ages without depleting the battery.
The Bessa R3A on the other hand, which has an electronically controlled shutter, does have a power switch.

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Vlad Soare

[Helge]

That is the feature the digital M like M10 is using, but without the switch. There is a lot of discussion also about that. For example the MP would be switched-on in a soft bag by pressing on the release button and drain battery, so the recommendation is to set it to "Off" in case of storing it away. I prefer full control in favor of some random convenience. Leica did change this design on purpose, accidental battery drain on one hand and having the camera not immediately ready is a nuisance probably for the vast majority of users. One user (troll?) not being amused by using a switch and accepts battery drain wouldn't affect such a reasonable decision from my point of view.

 

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[Vlad Soare]

1 minute ago, Helge said:

For example the MP would be switched-on in a soft bag by pressing on the release button and drain battery

I keep hearing this, but personally I have never stored a camera in its bag in such a way as to make this even remotely possible.
And having the camera not immediately ready isn't a thing with the Bessa R3M. Just raise it to your eye, press the release button halfway, and the meter lights up. No delay whatsoever. A fully electronic camera like an M10, on the other hand, is a different story. I imagine it must take a longer time to wake up.

I also hate on/off switches, but I accept them as one of those unavoidable facts of life, like speed traps or taxes.

[Helge]

People report it, however happened to me neither, but I'm using a good Billingham 72, that is not his soft on the inside.

My statement about not been ready immediately was referring to the troll's statement that cocking the lever switches-on the camera, this takes more time.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Helge