Lina Bessonova et al. Restarting ADOX Film Production

[ianman]

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2 hours ago, Helge said:

At the end they had nothing available than a scratched and mediocre B&W film the P30 which they gave away

They did sell some too. I got some last year and although I don’t recall seeing any scratches I do agree that I found it mediocre. I was willing to pay the high price for supporting their substantial effort.

[ianman]

12 hours ago, Martin B said:

I have used about 10 times 100' film cartridges from which I always rolled film myself for 35 mm format. Not even once I suffered from scratched films by doing so.

Thanks for the info. I was given an old but new in box bulk film loader a couple of years ago but haven’t used it yet. I’ll buy a reel of Ilford PAN400 and give it a try.

[Martin B]

19 minutes ago, ianman said:

Thanks for the info. I was given an old but new in box bulk film loader a couple of years ago but haven’t used it yet. I’ll buy a reel of Ilford PAN400 and give it a try.

Give it a shot. Keep in mind to load the 100' film into the loader in total darkness. The more tricky part is with the type of cassettes used to load the film. I am using the plastic Kalt-type ones which are decent but not perfect either. Easy to load and to disassemble but I learned it the hard way to brush the fiber lining before and after loading. It tends to pill, and some fibers can get stuck in the image frame when moving from frame to frame in the camera when not brushing it before usage. After multiple times of usage (a good number is 20x or more), you might have to discard the cassette due to decaying fiber. The Kalt cassettes are cheap to get. Not sure if there is a better system out there (open to advice from others who might read this!).  

Edited September 7, 2021 by Martin B

[Martin B]

12 minutes ago, ianman said:

They did sell some too. I got some last year and although I don’t recall seeing any scratches I do agree that I found it mediocre. I was willing to pay the high price for supporting their substantial effort.

What I like about the P30 is that it is substantially different from other B&W film stock - it is super contrasty. Excellent to be used in high contrast environments, but fairly useless in scenes where larger grey scale gamut is beneficial. Since I often do the latter in my shooting style, P30 is less useful for me. 

[Martin B]

1 hour ago, Matlock said:

Well said. but I fear that you are banging on an open door as most dedicated film users already subscribe to your views. However there is one person who is not prepared to change his views. The rest of us will happily pay what is still a realistic price to pursue our hobby.

Comes down to subjective opinion what each of us is willing to pay and where value is seen. I gave clear insight where I have my limits of what to pay for. Others can feel free to behave differently - this is not my problem. In the end it is to enjoy photography and the process. I have optimized the process for me - regarding film, I know the ones I like to use so far and which fall into the bracket of my price/quality ratio. 

[Matlock]

38 minutes ago, Martin B said:

Comes down to subjective opinion what each of us is willing to pay and where value is seen. I gave clear insight where I have my limits of what to pay for. Others can feel free to behave differently - this is not my problem. In the end it is to enjoy photography and the process. I have optimized the process for me - regarding film, I know the ones I like to use so far and which fall into the bracket of my price/quality ratio. 

Fair comment, each to his/her own. Incidentally I do use a bulk loader from time to time and agree with your comments re fibres in the cassettes.

[Helge]

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vor einer Stunde schrieb ianman:

I’m not entirely sure what you are getting at here. Are you criticising people who buy film in bulk and reuse (instead of creating yet more plastic waste) cartridges?

if this is the case why stop there? Why not also have a go at people who develop and print themselves? Or go even further and ban everyone who takes a picture who are not professional photographers because they take business away. Your arguments on the other issues have some value but unless I have completely misunderstood, this one is just ludicrous. Going down that path you may as well forbid anyone doing just about anything.

Maybe a complete misunderstanding, I caused unintended. It was all only about prices, comparing film prices you get by spending your own (potentially valuable) time for cutting and packaging to a purchased cartridge is a little bit like comparing apples to oranges.

I‘m definitely not criticizing any of this, rather the opposite, I have respect for people doing this, my skills are limited to develop films and making my own prints in the dark room, since this is indeed adding a lot of value.

[Helge]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb ianman:

They did sell some too. I got some last year and although I don’t recall seeing any scratches I do agree that I found it mediocre. I was willing to pay the high price for supporting their substantial effort.

Unfortunately the effort at the end wasn’t that substantial. If you follow the discussions in a lot of European forums most people rather consider all these actions a fail and the suspicion of receiving a lot of governmental subsidies and Kickstarter money without providing anything in exchange is there.

 

Edit: they did not only sell films with scratches but also with some kind of dust in it, a pretty sad experience at the end. They fixed these issues later on the expense of production capacity it seems.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Helge

[ianman]

35 minutes ago, Helge said:

Maybe a complete misunderstanding, I caused unintended. It was all only about prices, comparing film prices you get by spending your own (potentially valuable) time for cutting and packaging to a purchased cartridge is a little bit like comparing apples to oranges.

I understand your point but I think it’s not really that different, the end product is the same and if there is a more cost effective way for the customer to obtain it then surely that is best for them. I’ve never loaded bulk film, as I said, but I don’t really think it takes hours of ones own time. And if it wasn’t cost effective for the manufacturer they wouldn’t sell it in bulk. It seems like a win win win situation to me. The third winner being the environment.

[Helge]

vor 23 Minuten schrieb ianman:

I understand your point but I think it’s not really that different, the end product is the same and if there is a more cost effective way for the customer to obtain it then surely that is best for them. I’ve never loaded bulk film, as I said, but I don’t really think it takes hours of ones own time. And if it wasn’t cost effective for the manufacturer they wouldn’t sell it in bulk. It seems like a win win win situation to me. The third winner being the environment.

Selling film in bulk for somewhat less is for sure cost effective for the manufacturer (the IKEA effect).

I did loading cartridges a looong time ago (maybe 35 years ago or more) and I didn't like it. There was always something happening with the cartridges (during opening for development or upon closing after reloading), so I lost over time many of them and I lost a lot of time when it happened. If someone enjoys this step as part of his active hobby, fine, I consider it for myself as a rather boring activity w/o added value besides saving money. I prefer spending the time on taking photos and on developing and printing, a lot more fun and really productive.