Eyesore issues…SL2 system vs Canon R5

[thedwp]

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I know there have  been several discussions about eye site issues/ manual focus with Leica’s RF systems.

I'm as numbed as anyone because I’ve loved my M10r & M10m systems. But my eyes site is getting worse and nailing focus on these systems is getting increasingly more difficult. 

which obviously has me turning towards the SL2 system. Which we all know, the auto focus isn’t as good as some other systems. 

I tried the SL2 for a week and found it missing auto focus, and the feeling of the ibs bumping around…a friend said to try the R5. 

I’m in the process of trying the Canon R5 system with multiple RF lenses. And I have to say, it’s pretty incredible in terms of auto focus, sharpness, etc. dare I say, it’s too easy  

I’m about to take a major cross country trip (rt66) across the US. And I want that magic of Leica to capture it. 

I know several of us Leica owners have other systems….but I want to capture this trip in a meaningful way. And as silly as it sounds, the Canon R5 seems to easy, to flat, etc. 

im in the process of selling my m10r. I miss my m10-p. But again, due to my eyesight, I’m thinking of the SL2 or SL2-S. I’m a cropper so I’m not sure the SL2-s is for me. I have a black magic 4K video cam for video. So I’m more concerned with the stills. 

I was thinking about re-grouping and getting another SL2, SL28mm, 35mm, 90mm, etc. but it is a large system to carry around. 

any thoughts or advise? 

 

 

 

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[Datsch]

No advice and sorry to hear of your eyesight issues. But I know what you mean about the R5 -- a few months ago I tried the R5 and RF35mm macro and it does an absolutely terrific job in terms of image results but felt small, cheap, flimsy, plasticy, with rickety little whizz wheels and a blizzard of tiny icons on the screen whilst the lens made tinny grinding noises pumping in and out. I went for an M-D instead and couldn't be happier with the everyday feel and handling.

[LocalHero1953]

There are plenty here who have no problem with missing AF in the SL2 and SL2-S. What we can't tell you is if this is (somehow) your technique or a faulty camera. Only you can work this out.

And yes, the SL system with 3+ lenses IS too heavy and big to carry around. I never carry around more than one or at most two lenses. If I'm just 'carrying around' a camera anyway, then I carry the CL (and 1-2 lenses).

Edited August 6, 2021 by LocalHero1953

[hansvons]

I own the SL2-S with the 24-90. 

• It has delicate Leica colour, with deep saturation deep down the shadows
• It is ludicrously sensitive in low light environments
• Its software 2.0 makes face detection AF as reliable as the competition 
• The 24-90 is a superb lens with tons of dimensionality, very Leica-esk
• The 24-90 has a snappy AF implemented
• 24mp of resolution does it for me anytime; the sensor shows a very delicate texture at ISO800

---

I'm a filmmaker myself. I own proper PL glass and used to own a Red Epic; I shoot Arri on larger projects. With the purchase of the SL2-s, I streamlined my entire inventory and got rid of most of my cine glass and camera gear. The SL2-S video looks so good and close to what Alexas deliver that there is no need for my own dedicated video camera anymore. With a small half cage and the Ninja, the SL2-S with the 24-90 is a proper camera system for one-man-band documentary tasks. Sensitivity is beyond another system, except the Sony A7IIs; the video colour is best in class by a large margin. 

If your desire might be to streamline your inventory to one camera, the SL2-S could be it. And it can carry M glass as good as any M.

[Boojay]

4 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

There are plenty here who have no problem with missing AF in the SL2 and SL2-S. What we can't tell you is if this is (somehow) your technique or a faulty camera. Only you can work this out.

I'd have to say it's not only down to technique, though good technique obviously helps, but the difference in Phase Detect and Contrast Detection is chalk and cheese when talking wildlife/sports.  

 

[LocalHero1953]

1 minute ago, Boojay said:

I'd have to say it's not only down to technique, though good technique obviously helps, but the difference in Phase Detect and Contrast Detection is chalk and cheese when talking wildlife/sports.  

 

Yes, I agree. The OP does seem to recognise the known limitations of the SL AF though. His problems seem to go beyond these.

36 minutes ago, thedwp said:

Which we all know, the auto focus isn’t as good as some other systems. 

 

[HeinzX]

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I had the same problem wth my former used M systems a few years ago. What I did first, was to use the digital viewfinder on the Ms. But that did not solve the problem totally. Therefore I changed the system and bought  a SL and a year ago  to a SL2. And I am quite happy with my decision, Referring to the AF there are many possibiities for adjustment - it is possible  to take the best one for everyone´s applications . That will not end up in the best AF of all other systems but will be good enough for many applications. I am not a sport shooter or one, who needs an ultra fast AF. In this case the SL2 is definite the wrong system and my choice would be either a Nikon or a Canon of the top models, which are heavy too,

[hansvons]

Regarding eyesight. I had to rely on my vision most of my professional life. With ageing and the need to wear glasses all the time, manual focussing is now a task that costs considerable power and tires me. In my 20ies and 30ies, nailing focus was a 95% thing. In my 40ies, soft shots slipped in more and more, and I started to leave operating the camera and the focus to younger assistants. Now in my 50ies, manual focusing is a task that I no longer do when working commercially with cameras. I just can't do it reliably enough anymore. AF resolves a lot for me, albeit not on the video side.

[thedwp]

Sounds like I need tp give the sL2 another chance. I do like to crop otherwise I’d try the sl2s. But I’m not a hybrid shooter. I have a black magic 4k cam for video. 

I know it sounds stupid but I’m trying not to have to settle for the canon system. I know it will nail focus but it’s so big and damn boring lol. 

[chris_tribble]

Looking at the OP's (very nice) work on instagram, I think that he'd do really well with the SL2 and the 24-90.  It's not light, but it's also surprisingly OK to carry for long days out.  I carry mine across the body on a simple 1" leather strap and it's fine for long treks (6 or 7 hours) - and I'm a reasonably fit 73!  I've been astounded by how good the images are from the zoom (and I've avoided zooms for landscape and documentary for a long time). To get a sense of the potential, check https://www.vieribottazzini.com/2017/11/leica-24-90mm-f2-8-4-vario-elmarit-sl-asph-user-review.html.

So, for a long trip, an SL2 with the 24-90 will cover most needs - and you can use APSC mode (or crop) if you need more reach.  It's surprised me how good the results from this are in real world prints.

re the focus problems you've had, I've found that the following works really well for me.

1. Use Extended EVF (so that the back screen doesn't come on unless you're reviewing pictures or checking menus
2. Use Focus moe - AFs 
3. Use AF mode - Field 
4. Lock the joystick with the AF field in a central position (I assign this to the button nearest the viewfinder - you can then unlock very quickly if you need to)
5. I have Auto ISO set

Best of luck!

Edited August 6, 2021 by chris_tribble

[hansvons]

1 hour ago, chris_tribble said:

Looking at the OP's (very nice) work on instagram, I think that he'd do really well with the SL2 and the 24-90.

Absolutely. Nice stuff by the way - congrats!!

[Stuart Richardson]

I think Chris is on the right track...how have you used the AF and how has it failed? Is it failing in fast moving situations, or in guessing your intentions? I use the SL2 and tend to stick to using it with a single point (typically in the center). In most situations I have encountered, this rarely fails to yield quick, accurate results. If you are trying to nail focus on quick moving subject matter like sports or animals moving around, then a camera system that has phase detect and good tracking/eye detection is likely to work better for you. I am not a big action photographer, however.

P.S. Looking at some of your instagram, I do not see too much that looks like it would be difficult to deal with very easily with single point AF in the SL2. It would probably feel more like your M too, since you are surely used to center point focus and recompose. That is why I could never get used to AF points flying all over the place...years and years shooting on manual focus M's and SLRs that had split microprism VFs.. My biggest frustration with newer cameras is typically that the AF point keeps moving around when I hit the joystick for some reason...thanks to Chris for locking that. I tend to use back button focus, so I am not sure it will work for me, but it is a good idea. I wish it were possible to lock just the focus, and not the joystick as a whole, as it is useful for other things.

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Stuart Richardson

[hansvons]

2 hours ago, Datsch said:

No advice and sorry to hear of your eyesight issues. But I know what you mean about the R5 -- a few months ago I tried the R5 and RF35mm macro and it does an absolutely terrific job in terms of image results but felt small, cheap, flimsy, plasticy, with rickety little whizz wheels and a blizzard of tiny icons on the screen whilst the lens made tinny grinding noises pumping in and out

In the past, I had a closer relationship with Canon, and I had the opportunity to test-drive a lot of their products over several months and projects. While they are doing a great job when it comes to technology and production quality (their cine and broadcast glass is excellent), they are restrained to price limits in their photography markets (which isn't the case in cine and TV land) because price-conscious enthusiasts and journalists dominate this market. That makes their products driven by technology and numbers, but artistic expression may be lost at some point and becomes mainstream-centric. I find Canon's skin tones too happy and healthy to me. I also find the user experience somewhat soulless. With the SL2-S, I found my answer on the last two points. Nothing creates a better picture than the joy to take your camera and go out shooting. The power of motivation through the pleasure with the gear you are using can't be overestimated.

[thedwp]

2 hours ago, chris_tribble said:

Looking at the OP's (very nice) work on instagram, I think that he'd do really well with the SL2 and the 24-90.  It's not light, but it's also surprisingly OK to carry for long days out.  I carry mine across the body on a simple 1" leather strap and it's fine for long treks (6 or 7 hours) - and I'm a reasonably fit 73!  I've been astounded by how good the images are from the zoom (and I've avoided zooms for landscape and documentary for a long time). To get a sense of the potential, check https://www.vieribottazzini.com/2017/11/leica-24-90mm-f2-8-4-vario-elmarit-sl-asph-user-review.html.

So, for a long trip, an SL2 with the 24-90 will cover most needs - and you can use APSC mode (or crop) if you need more reach.  It's surprised me how good the results from this are in real world prints.

re the focus problems you've had, I've found that the following works really well for me.

1. Use Extended EVF (so that the back screen doesn't come on unless you're reviewing pictures or checking menus
2. Use Focus moe - AFs 
3. Use AF mode - Field 
4. Lock the joystick with the AF field in a central position (I assign this to the button nearest the viewfinder - you can then unlock very quickly if you need to)
5. I have Auto ISO set

Best of luck!

Thanks for the through recco. All makes sense and will help me in my decision process. 

[thedwp]

1 hour ago, hansvons said:

I also find the user experience somewhat soulless.

You summed it up here. That’s exactly how I feel using the canon system. It’s hard to put in words but you nailed it. 

[chris_tribble]

3 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

 I wish it were possible to lock just the focus, and not the joystick as a whole, as it is useful for other things.

 

Too right. Wouldn’t it be nice if that came with the firmware update. SL2-s users. What’s the situation there? I’d there improved control of the joystick?

[LBJ2]

8 hours ago, thedwp said:

I know there have  been several discussions about eye site issues/ manual focus with Leica’s RF systems.

I'm as numbed as anyone because I’ve loved my M10r & M10m systems. But my eyes site is getting worse and nailing focus on these systems is getting increasingly more difficult. 

which obviously has me turning towards the SL2 system. Which we all know, the auto focus isn’t as good as some other systems. 

I tried the SL2 for a week and found it missing auto focus, and the feeling of the ibs bumping around…a friend said to try the R5. 

I’m in the process of trying the Canon R5 system with multiple RF lenses. And I have to say, it’s pretty incredible in terms of auto focus, sharpness, etc. dare I say, it’s too easy  

I’m about to take a major cross country trip (rt66) across the US. And I want that magic of Leica to capture it. 

I know several of us Leica owners have other systems….but I want to capture this trip in a meaningful way. And as silly as it sounds, the Canon R5 seems to easy, to flat, etc. 

im in the process of selling my m10r. I miss my m10-p. But again, due to my eyesight, I’m thinking of the SL2 or SL2-S. I’m a cropper so I’m not sure the SL2-s is for me. I have a black magic 4K video cam for video. So I’m more concerned with the stills. 

I was thinking about re-grouping and getting another SL2, SL28mm, 35mm, 90mm, etc. but it is a large system to carry around. 

any thoughts or advise? 

 

 

 

Zone focus would turn your M10-R into a point and shoot. E.g., 35mm lens set to f8 and 14-15' DoF. Set ISO to Auto, and keep an eye on your shutter speed as needed. Viola. Faster than AF. 

Bring the SL2 , for when you absolutely feel you need EVF/MF or AF and use AFS instead of AFC to avoid the AF pulsing. SL 90mm would make a great pair to the M35. 

[Jeff S]

I use back button AF on my SL2 and have set it up so that, if needed, a slight turn of the focus ring brings up magnification (I turn off peaking… distracting and unnecessary for me), after which a touch of the shutter release brings back full view.  Works quickly and precisely for me.  
 

With my aging eyes, using an M, I’ve found that using a +.5 diopter in addition to my glasses (corrected for distance and astigmatism) has better optimized focusing.  Easy to experiment.

Jeff

Edited August 6, 2021 by Jeff S

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[6bit]

The SL2 is great for me. I use Leica M and Voigtlander lenses on it 90% of the time. AF is fine for anything else.

If you meant SL lenses above, yeah, that’s a bit of stuff to carry. The 35 and 90 would be sufficient for me  28 would be really close to 35.

If you meant M lenses, go for it. Not a lot at all to carry!

Cutting edge AF would be found in the Sony camp A1 or A9ii. Can’t go wrong there. Sony would be and us my choice for a second  camera system.

[Rob L]

Contrary to most, it seems, I have great success with AFs and tracking. I use a focus and recompose technique where I grab focus in the center of the frame and recompose with shutter half pressed and the camera sticks to the subject as I do so, and it's great. Granted I'm not shooting wildlife or sports.  The focus spot goes a bit blurry as the camera does its contrast detect thing and cycles the lens back and forth a very tiny amount, so you have to have some faith in the system. But I find it works very well!