"New" Leica MP (purchased from store pre-owned) has creaky level when cocked. No hard stop

[mp-inquirer]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hey all - I'm checking in if something is normal for the Leica MP. I have an M4-2 and when the shutter is fully advanced and ready to fire, there's a complete "hard stop" feeling from the lever. There's no play at all and it feels rather secure as a firm thumb rest for the weight of the camera. However, I purchased a preowned MP last week from a brick and mortar official leica store and noticed this evening that the advance lever has a bit of play in it. Pressing up against it, fully advanced, the lever has a creaky feel... like if I pushed hard enough it might give way. It by no means feels fragile - but the feel is iffy enough that it's picking at my mind a bit. There's also maybe half a mm of vertical travel if we're measuring near the base of the lever. The actual advancing mechanics feel great to my hands and the resistance and snap-back feels correct.

If anyone else has an MP or M-A, I'm curious if this is the expected operation of the body. I've put about 20 rolls through it so far and it hasn't taken any kind of jostling in the last week - it's been safely around my neck or in my hands nearly the whole time. I can definitely adjust and live with it if so... otherwise I might follow up with the Leica store about that 30 day warranty. The history of the camera is that the previous owner said the viewfinder side took some damage in shipping - there's a .3mm or so deep nick in the body near the viewfinder but no other visible damage. Viewfinder itself works great after servicing at Leica germany proper, but wondering if the "shipping damage" might've rattled and loosened bits on the other side of the camera.

Thanks!

Edited July 6, 2021 by mp-inquirer
more details

[Helge]

At my (rather new)  MP: quick wind lever advanced, ready to fire. If I leave the lever folded out, it has a spring loaded feeling allowing about 3-4mm to go further, however coming back directly. At its far end it has a "hard stop" feeling (at least for the force I'm applying normally)

There is some vertical play at the end of the lever (~1mm, rather elasticity than play), however i do not recognize any at the base.

Hope that helps

[250swb]

5 minutes ago, Helge said:

At my (rather new)  MP: quick wind lever advanced, ready to fire. If I leave the lever folded out, it has a spring loaded feeling allowing about 3-4mm to go further, however coming back directly. At its far end it has a "hard stop" feeling (at least for the force I'm applying normally)

There is some vertical play at the end of the lever (~1mm, rather elasticity than play), however i do not recognize any at the base.

Hope that helps

My old MP is exactly the same, a very firm hard stop but with a spring in the last few millimeters. Some vertical movement is also normal.

It shouldn't feel creaky, it should feel robust enough to use as a brace, maybe its been forced at some time in the past?

[BradS]

if Leica Germany serviced it, I would assume that it is right and proper....but maybe Leica Germany did not really service it but the local store just said that? Hard to say. In any case, you just paid several thousand dollars (or Euros or whatever) and are already suffering a loss of confidence...which is not good. I think I'd take it back to the shop and talk to them about it while it is still under warranty.

[Helge]

If Leica CS did service it, @mp-inquirerreceived most probably the paperwork of this service, if not it’s definitely at least questionable.

I agree that presenting the topic to the dealer, maybe comparing the behavior to a real brand new MP (if he has one) at the dealer might be a good idea.

[pedaes]

9 hours ago, mp-inquirer said:

"shipping damage"

The way Leica CS packs cameras - in a custom foam box well protected in the shipping box with self forming foam wrapper - there is no way that any camera would get 'shipping damage'.

[Topsy]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

8 hours ago, 250swb said:

My old MP is exactly the same, a very firm hard stop but with a spring in the last few millimeters. Some vertical movement is also normal.

It shouldn't feel creaky, it should feel robust enough to use as a brace, maybe its been forced at some time in the past?

My 2003 MP is just the same.and my 1962 M2 is similar.

[mp-inquirer]

Appreciate the answers all - very helpful. Now that there's some light, I made what is apparently Leica ASMR... or maybe audio gore?? I'd like your help finding out! (There are no loud sounds in this video, so you can safely turn your audio up to hear. I will probably delete this soon when I have some more opinions)

 

EDIT: video removed, thanks for the 2nd opinions y'all.

Edited July 6, 2021 by mp-inquirer

[pedaes]

17 minutes ago, mp-inquirer said:

Leica ASMR

It almost looks like it is not completing winding on. Does the camera have a film loaded? One thing I would check with an old film correctly loaded is the wind-on accuracy. Remove lens, set shutter to 'B' and with a felt tip pen put a mark on cassette side of opening . Fire shutter and wind on and see if mark disappears  to spool side.

[mp-inquirer]

5 minutes ago, pedaes said:

It almost looks like it is not completing winding on. Does the camera have a film loaded? One thing I would check with an old film correctly loaded is the wind-on accuracy. Remove lens, set shutter to 'B' and with a felt tip pen put a mark on cassette side of opening . Fire shutter and wind on and see if mark disappears  to spool side.

I'll give that a try later - this is fresh roll of cinestill 800t. Now I'm curious if the lever play changes if the camera is empty too! (I did load it in a hurry though cause I was shooting at night and there was a drunk guy being weird >..>) I'm not certain that the current film state is _exactly_ the culprit, I noticed the behavior from the camera halfway through a roll last night.

[Helge]

The second part (to begin with) about the vertical play seems quite ok, mine has probably a similar "elasticity". 

The first part looks creepy to me. You either apply a lot of force on the lever, or there might be something wrong 😬

[pedaes]

3 minutes ago, mp-inquirer said:

I'm not certain that the current film state is _exactly_ the culprit

OK, quick check. Use Rewind 'knob' to tension film in cassette and see if indicator dots move as you wind on. You may, stress may, have stripped the film sprockets. M cameras are not for loading in a rush or under pressure, even when you are familiar with them.

[mp-inquirer]

1 minute ago, Helge said:

The second part (to begin with) about the vertical play seems quite ok, mine has probably a similar "elasticity". 

The first part looks creepy to me. You either apply a lot of force on the lever, or there might be something wrong 😬

OK - yeah. No more than the weight of the body with a noctilux 0.95 attached - so the behavior emerges around 3-5 lbs of pressure. It creeps me out too. I'm gonna spin by the store later this week.

[mp-inquirer]

8 minutes ago, pedaes said:

OK, quick check. Use Rewind 'knob' to tension film in cassette and see if indicator dots move as you wind on. You may, stress may, have stripped the film sprockets. M cameras are not for loading in a rush or under pressure, even when you are familiar with them.

Assuming I'm following you correctly, yes the dots move when film advances while under tension.

[250swb]

56 minutes ago, mp-inquirer said:

Appreciate the answers all - very helpful. Now that there's some light, I made what is apparently Leica ASMR... or maybe audio gore?? I'd like your help finding out! (There are no loud sounds in this video, so you can safely turn your audio up to hear. I will probably delete this soon when I have some more opinions)

 

 

I can see what you are doing and that extra movement isn't right. The film advance lever does feel different if there is a film in or not, the stop point is the  same, and yours looks wrong unless you are confusing the last 'spring' movement with the final stop. The only double check would be if your M4-2 has the final 'spring' that M cameras have. If it is indeed literally a hard stop it may be your M4-2 that's wrong.

Edited July 6, 2021 by 250swb

[oldwino]

19 hours ago, pedaes said:

. M cameras are not for loading in a rush or under pressure, even when you are familiar with them.

Really? Tell that to every photojournalist, war correspondent, event photographer, etc who used Leica film cameras. 
 

These are not fragile cameras. 

[BradS]

19 hours ago, mp-inquirer said:

...... the weight of the body with a noctilux 0.95 attached - so the behavior emerges around 3-5 lbs of pressure.....

 

I'm very confused.  How is the size and weight of the lens in anyway related to the film advance lever?

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by BradS

[Helge]

I think, he is carrying the camera by hooking the lever to his thumb…

Edited July 7, 2021 by Helge

[250swb]

5 minutes ago, Helge said:

I think, he is carrying the camera by hooking the lever to his thumb…

Good point and which shouldn't be a problem.

I've always wrapped the strap around my wrist and hung a Leica M off my thumb by the advance lever, a comfortable way to carry it ready for action. If the advance mechanism isn't suitable for the weight of a Noctilux and maybe also a Leicavit Leica should really consider warning people after nearly seventy years of silence. 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Helge]

I don‘t think either that this way of carrying it around had any influence on the topic, however there is for sure some maximum force that can be applied.