Can A Leica M-E (typ 220) Accept M9 Firmware updates?

[Marco Diaz]

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I have recently purchased a used 28mm Summilux 1.4 (11668).  My M-E from 2015 does not recognize this lens.  The list of lenses only has some f2.8 options.  I have it on the latest firmware 1.210 that was made specifically for the M-E.  However I guess this lens was added to later firmwares which there are for the M9.  Considering these are the same camera it feels like I can update to whatever the last M9 Firmware would be but I don't want to brick the camera by accident.  Does anyone know if this is a thing that can be done?  Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

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[a.noctilux]

Hello,

maybe but why bother as you can download the latest firmware 1.210:

ME

 

https://us.leica-camera.com/Service-Support/Support/Downloads?category=93710&subcategory=93869&type=108942&language=all

M9

https://us.leica-camera.com/Service-Support/Support/Downloads?category=93710&subcategory=93713&type=108942&language=all

they share same name as xxx.upd

 

side note...

Don't forget that coded lenses from start ( as newer released lenses from 2006 ) are not on the list of "manual type choice".

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by a.noctilux

[TomB_tx]

4 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

side note...

Don't forget that coded lenses from start ( as newer released lenses from 2006 ) are not on the list of "manual type choice".

 

That's right - so these lenses will notshow up in the manual list, as they are selected by the 6-bit code.

[Marco Diaz]

That is helpful.  I didn't realize the manual list was for pre-6 bit lenses.  That said if I do nothing the Exif data says "lens unknown".  So I'm thinking somewhere Leica issued a post 2015 firmware update that has this lens (11668) in it.  But 1.210 does not, so I guess it was a later firmware update?  That assumes that the latest firmware updates include all of the data in the prior updates and don't just add in new lenses for that specific update.  So the questions are which Leica firmware version had this lens in it and if it was M9 only, would I be able to use it?  I think: a.noctilux had the answer though as Leica seemed to have posted the same file in both the M9 and M-E updates.  

[ianman]

On 6/26/2021 at 3:14 AM, Marco Diaz said:

So the questions are which Leica firmware version had this lens in it

The version release notes list lens additions if any.

[Marco Diaz]

13 hours ago, ianman said:

The version release notes list lens additions if any.

Oddly having looked at every firmware I can't find the 28mm Summilux 11668 on any of them.  I wonder if you are on firmware 1.210 does that mean you have everything else from every prior firmware?  If you skipped a release in the middle do you never get those lens profiles?  Or would 1.210 have everything on any prior update?

[ianman]

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27 minutes ago, Marco Diaz said:

Or would 1.210 have everything on any prior update?

Yes, I think we can safely assume that.

The firmware on my M9 is 1.216, which I believe is the latest. The lenses listed are the Thmabar-M and 75mm Noctilux.

When you say your M-E does not recognize the lens. I suppose you mean that lens is coded and you are in auto detection mode?

Edited June 30, 2021 by ianman

[Marco Diaz]

1 hour ago, ianman said:

Yes, I think we can safely assume that.

The firmware on my M9 is 1.216, which I believe is the latest. The lenses listed are the Thmabar-M and 75mm Noctilux.

When you say your M-E does not recognize the lens. I suppose you mean that lens is coded and you are in auto detection mode?

Perfect.  So updates that actually said "M-E" stopped at 1.210.  However updates for the M9 stopped at 1.216.  So my original question is since an M-E is an M9 - do we think I can try and update the M-E to 1.216.  I would think so except why in the past did they specifically call out M-E updates differently than M9 updates.  Why not just post one for both.  But I think the point made by a.noctilux above is that if you look at the actual files - they are in fact the same.  Which would lend itself to thinking that I can do it.  Just would be great if someone knew empirically if this was the case.  

Regarding the lens - you nailed it.  If I set the camera to auto detect it doesn't recognize the lens at all.  I assume since it is a current model and only came out in 2015 that the summilux is coded.  But I guess there is always the chance that it is not.  How can you tell if a lens is 6-bit coded or not?

[Ko.Fe.]

3 minutes ago, Marco Diaz said:

Perfect.  So updates that actually said "M-E" stopped at 1.210.  However updates for the M9 stopped at 1.216.  So my original question is since an M-E is an M9 - do we think I can try and update the M-E to 1.216.  I would think so except why in the past did they specifically call out M-E updates differently than M9 updates.  Why not just post one for both.  But I think the point made by a.noctilux above is that if you look at the actual files - they are in fact the same.  Which would lend itself to thinking that I can do it.  Just would be great if someone knew empirically if this was the case.  

Regarding the lens - you nailed it.  If I set the camera to auto detect it doesn't recognize the lens at all.  I assume since it is a current model and only came out in 2015 that the summilux is coded.  But I guess there is always the chance that it is not.  How can you tell if a lens is 6-bit coded or not?

Did you read 1.216 doc? You could read it right here:

"M9/M9-P/M-E Firmware Version 1.216 M Monochrom Firmware Version 1.022 The following improvements are included in these firmware updates: Support of the new lens: • Thambar-M 90 f/2.2 • Noctilux-M 75 f/1.25 ASPH."

End of 1.216 document.

And here is what is in 1.210:

"M9/M9-P/M-E Firmware Version 1.210 M Monochrom Firmware Version 1.016 The following improvements are included in these firmware updates: Support of the new lens: Leica Summaron-M 28 mm f/5.6"

None of them will not do anything new with  28mm Summilux 1.4 (11668).

[Marco Diaz]

24 minutes ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Did you read 1.216 doc? You could read it right here:

"M9/M9-P/M-E Firmware Version 1.216 M Monochrom Firmware Version 1.022 The following improvements are included in these firmware updates: Support of the new lens: • Thambar-M 90 f/2.2 • Noctilux-M 75 f/1.25 ASPH."

End of 1.216 document.

And here is what is in 1.210:

"M9/M9-P/M-E Firmware Version 1.210 M Monochrom Firmware Version 1.016 The following improvements are included in these firmware updates: Support of the new lens: Leica Summaron-M 28 mm f/5.6"

None of them will not do anything new with  28mm Summilux 1.4 (11668).

Thank you KoFe - so the mystery is now solved.  I can unequivocally update to 1.216 which I will do.  However the issue with not recognizing the 28mm summilux 1.4 11668 seems to still exist. Could it even be possible that Leica would have released this lens without providing the ability for the camera's to recognize it?  Or should I just assume at this point that only a typ 262 or later would.

[Ko.Fe.]

21 minutes ago, Marco Diaz said:

Thank you KoFe - so the mystery is now solved.  I can unequivocally update to 1.216 which I will do.  However the issue with not recognizing the 28mm summilux 1.4 11668 seems to still exist. Could it even be possible that Leica would have released this lens without providing the ability for the camera's to recognize it?  Or should I just assume at this point that only a typ 262 or later would.

Looks like Leica M9 series are not any different from M8 series by now. Repairs are very limited by few remaining parts and no fw upgrades, including new lenses support. 

[ianman]

1 hour ago, Marco Diaz said:

Regarding the lens - you nailed it.  If I set the camera to auto detect it doesn't recognize the lens at all.  I assume since it is a current model and only came out in 2015 that the summilux is coded.  But I guess there is always the chance that it is not.  How can you tell if a lens is 6-bit coded or not?

I doubt that your lens is not coded as it was introduced in 2015, years after the coding system was introduced.

The 6-bit code is a series of 6 (  ) black or white small rounded rectangles on the lens flange (see photo below which is a coded 75mm Summilux). This code is lens specific so when it's mounted on the body, the camera knows which type of lens is attached. With this it knows what information to include in the EXIF and also will apply some correction to the image if required.

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If your camera is not recognising the lens, and you are sure that the detection mode is in auto, it could be that some dirt has found it's way onto the lens where the code is and is impeding the reading.

Edited June 30, 2021 by ianman

[Marco Diaz]

RESOLVED!!!  Thanks to all of you I have confirmed 1.  That of course the Summilux 28 is 6 bit coded.  That would have been a shock.  2.  That the M-E can take the M9 updates and I am now in fact on 1.216 which sadly is as good as it will get.  But I do love that sensor.  and 3. Even though 1.216 mentions NOTHING about the 28mm Summilux in it's update notes it did in fact load that profile.  So now when I go to Auto Detect - the camera no longer does not recognize the lens.  For all we know it could also have been a freak bug in the 1.210 update that was overwritten by 1.216.  But that was my experience.  1.210 - no Summilux 28mm.  1.216 yes Summilux 28mm.  Just putting that out there for the random people who may be using an M8, M9, M9 Mono or the typ 220 M-E plus this amazing lens.

[justj]

On 7/1/2021 at 1:57 PM, Marco Diaz said:

RESOLVED!!!  Thanks to all of you I have confirmed 1.  That of course the Summilux 28 is 6 bit coded.  That would have been a shock.  2.  That the M-E can take the M9 updates and I am now in fact on 1.216 which sadly is as good as it will get.  But I do love that sensor.  and 3. Even though 1.216 mentions NOTHING about the 28mm Summilux in it's update notes it did in fact load that profile.  So now when I go to Auto Detect - the camera no longer does not recognize the lens.  For all we know it could also have been a freak bug in the 1.210 update that was overwritten by 1.216.  But that was my experience.  1.210 - no Summilux 28mm.  1.216 yes Summilux 28mm.  Just putting that out there for the random people who may be using an M8, M9, M9 Mono or the typ 220 M-E plus this amazing lens.

Strange. My M-E is on firmware 1.216 but still doesn't recognize summilux 28mm. All the photos I uploaded to Flicker taken with M-E + 28mm  Summilux show no lens information.

[Marco Diaz]

On 6/6/2024 at 4:04 AM, justj said:

Strange. My M-E is on firmware 1.216 but still doesn't recognize summilux 28mm. All the photos I uploaded to Flicker taken with M-E + 28mm  Summilux show no lens information.

You are right.  I went back and checked and I cannot see where the lens is posting on Flickr.  I'm not sure why I thought that was the case.  I think previously maybe it was mis-labeling the lens and now is just not labeling it at all.

[justj]

13 minutes ago, Marco Diaz said:

You are right.  I went back and checked and I cannot see where the lens is posting on Flickr.  I'm not sure why I thought that was the case.  I think previously maybe it was mis-labeling the lens and now is just not labeling it at all.

Even on lightroom one has to manually select lens profile as auto doesn't work.