Superb new camera profiles and camera & film emulation presets (Cobalt-Image)

[ALLinONE]

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Real Fuji s5pro vs cobalt emulation- look at what it does with red, orange, look at the flowers, how the emulation darkens them unnaturally. And in general...:

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[ALLinONE]

And then supposedly leica m8, according to cobalt-image.
It's even worse here - the flowers are generally blackened.
Do you really think that the m8 is so red?!

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And they tell me that I didn't set the white balance correctly. They insist that this will save the flowers from blackening.
 

[Adam Bonn]

Sure!

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M9 JPEG zero edits 

M10 DNG zero edits but Cobalt 'Leica M9 Jpg' applied

 

 

 

[Adam Bonn]

for a bonus!

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M10 DNG 'adobe Standard Profile (zero edits) and the M9 jpeg

 

[Adam Bonn]

1 hour ago, ALLinONE said:

Do you really think that the m8 is so red?!

dunno never had one!

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But the M9 sooc jpg is pretty red!

(edit, I don't have a lux 75, that's a menu error based on me sharpie coding a 50 planar 🤣)

 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Adam Bonn

[ALLinONE]

And even then, the colors are too different.

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And in my case, when fuji xt4 tries to emulate fuji s5pro using cobalt-image profiles, the result is even worse.(

[Adam Bonn]

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38 minutes ago, ALLinONE said:

And even then, the colors are too different.

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And in my case, when fuji xt4 tries to emulate fuji s5pro using cobalt-image profiles, the result is even worse.(

considering that it's generally considered impossible to make camera A render exactly the same as camera B the above result isn't too bad IMO... the lime green clothes pegs are the biggest difference, the orange tub as well.

The big problem here is that a Leica M8 or 9 or a s5pro or whatever compared to an M10 or modern Fuji/Sony etc is that the newer cameras have vastly different native tone curves and therefore tonality.

The tone curve changes the look of the colours..

The other problem here is that there's two usage scenarios for a product like this:

1. 'Tog has two different rigs. Shoots them at the same time. Needs to match them up in post. Cobalt is the starting point, s/he opens each image side-by-side and tweaks the little differences out.

2. 'Tog used to shoot camera XYZ 'back in the day' - great times man... happy memories. Modern cameras just don't have that look any more... But no generic profile is going to give you back your memory colour and yes 'you' still have the photos, but taking your (say) Leica M11 to the same place you visited 15 years with your M8 and taking the same pictures will mean plenty of reasons why they won't look the same (colours of buildings fade or get repainted) different light/different day, different time of the year

and finally your post above seems to be two missing key points

1. Gee thanks for taking the time to do this Adam

and

2. Do you mind if I download your pictures and make an animation from them please?

[Adam Bonn]

Here's some fun for you @ALLinONE

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These are all shot with the M9.

All use the 'Leica embedded' profile

All shot with the summarit 35mm

All shot over a longish time period on different days, different times, different seasons (I dunno 18months, maybe up too 2 years) 

If I asked you to make me an M9 look-a-like profile for my canikonfujony that I'd happily pay for...

....what shade would you pick for the colour red to make me a happy customer?

-------------------------------

Imagine if I sold my M9 after the first photo (taken in 2019) and you gave me a profile that made me the colours in the last photo (2021 iirc)... I wouldn't be very impressed would I?

And these are the colour differences of exactly the same object, with exactly the same lens and exactly the same camera, exactly the same profile the only variable is time and light.

..................................

I've no dog in your beef with Cobalt. I bought their profiles because I curious and wanted to see how they work.. 

I make my own profiles. I use Lumariver to do this.

 

 

 

[ALLinONE]

I'm sorry, I won't be able to support a discussion, an argument, well enough in English.
But I just wanted to warn people against mindlessly buying a low-quality product.
With such a big difference, it doesn't make sense to buy these emulation profiles and use them as a starting point. With the same success, you can bring the picture to the desired one without special profiles.
---
My examples are made at the same time...

[ALLinONE]

33 minutes ago, Adam Bonn said:

Quote

 

I've no dog in your beef with Cobalt. I bought their profiles because I curious and wanted to see how they work.. 

I make my own profiles. I use Lumariver to do this.

 

By the way, I also bought them out of curiosity. And long before the purchase, I myself made a fuji s5pro emulation profile using dcamprof_look, LumariverPD and 3DLUTCreator. And my profile
Compared to cobalt, it works just perfect. And immediately, without additional corrections ...

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However, I don't sell profiles because I realize that they are still not perfect in every way, and I don't want to deceive people. But cobalt-image is sold, and they promise high-quality emulation...

Edited March 5, 2022 by ALLinONE

[ALLinONE]

And here's how it shows up in lightroom - just exposure and white balance.

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[Adam Bonn]

36 minutes ago, ALLinONE said:

I'm sorry, I won't be able to support a discussion, an argument, well enough in English.
But I just wanted to warn people against mindlessly buying a low-quality product.
With such a big difference, it doesn't make sense to buy these emulation profiles and use them as a starting point. With the same success, you can bring the picture to the desired one without special profiles.
---
My examples are made at the same time...

I don't want an argument or a discussion!

Colours, editing etc it's a subjective subject..

I use the profiles I made myself, some MIGHT like my colours but others won't...

Look this whole make camera X look like camera Y thing.. 

It's like going to see The Gimme Hendrix Experience, did you you just travel back in time to see the real Hendrix play Woodstock? Nooooo of course not, but that doesn't mean you can't have a good night out seeing a tribute/covers band

As I demonstrated - there's lots of colour variations with the same camera/lens/subject let alone making a different camera look the "same"

If you or anyone wants 'the M9 look' or the 'CCD look' or the 'Fuji look' then first figure out what that look means to you and seek to create it in your other brand cameras, and IMHO (and IME frankly) you'll find yourself making YOUR look with tone curves and WB changes far more than you will obsessing about the CIELAB values of red or whatever.. and if one of the innumerable preset/profile sellers can get 'you' some of the way there, great - but they'll never work on every image, let alone for every camera or every customer - because the expectations are different

Just make a preset around the Cobalt xmp file (you can type it in directly if you like, eg   crs:Vibrance="plus/minus whatever"  crs:Saturation="plus/minus whatever"  crs:HueAdjustmentOrange="plus/minus whatever") and/or modify their supporting .dcp file (DNG profile editor is a bit shit these days, but it'll get some tweaks done ok) to make a profile that works for you

 

[Adam Bonn]

38 minutes ago, ALLinONE said:

And here's how it shows up in lightroom - just exposure and white balance.

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I've never had an S5pro... but that's VAGUELY CCDy isn't it? dark darks, light lights - pale skin that's not too pinkish, dark oranges, cyan-y blues.....?

 

[otto.f]

@Adam Bonn and @ALLinONE  So you are in full agreement at the end, no?

[ALLinONE]

27 minutes ago, otto.f said:

@Adam Bonn and @ALLinONE  So you are in full agreement at the end, no?

Agree with what? I have already voiced my opinion - these profiles are of very low quality, and you do not get what the manufacturer promised. Some may like them, I do not exclude. But you won't get what you paid for. You will not get a picture of a conditional M9 when shooting on Nikon, for example, as the manufacturer promises. There are gross errors in these profiles, and the manufacturer must admit and redo his work. Even my own profile is MUCH more accurate than what I paid for.

[otto.f]

1 minute ago, ALLinONE said:

own profile

is what Adam Bonn advocates

[Adam Bonn]

1 hour ago, otto.f said:

@Adam Bonn and @ALLinONE  So you are in full agreement at the end, no?

I don’t find the cobalt M10 to M9 profiles especially identical to the m9 (and I don’t have the other CCD cameras to compare with) but I never 100% expected it to be. Run enough m9/m10 side by side, shot the same time, same lens photos though cobalt and sometimes it’s closer than other times but never identical. No shock there. (Well for me anyway)

I wouldn’t say that makes them bad though.. I judged them on ‘edit ability’ colour robustness stuff life that

As I demonstrated the same camera/lens/subject can still make very different looking pictures if you factor in time/season/light

I make my own profiles because I want to, I can and ultimately a canned profile product by adobe or Leica or VSCO or Cobalt or whatever is still someone else’s set of compromises and I’m happier having a profile that works with compromises I selected.

I suspect that AllinOne and me are saying the same thing.. the cobalt CCD profiles are not exact matches and it’s better to make your own.

The difference is that I’m a lot more philosophical about it.

[Ulysseita]

The user ALLIONE is R . Vic.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1702704/36#lastmessage
 

He started his personal crusade against us even before buying our profiles and later as he promised by mail using "gangster tones" (all recorded and ready for a lawyer) after we showed him where is missing the correct workflow.
this is the difference between S5pro SOOC and ours .

 

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Our policies are clear, sometimes we go over them to please our customers (always pleased) but when someone threat us using that way to communicate there is not something more to add.
or...Of course there is, other than blackmail, libel as we can see there and other forums.

 

Apologies for that OT, I will not add more about that.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Ulysseita

[ALLinONE]

Ulysseita

You are paranoid. There was no blackmail on my part. I just asked for a refund for a purchased product that did not match the advertisement on the site. And if the request is not satisfied, show examples online to people who are interested in your product so that they avoid unpleasant surprises, as was the case in my case.
Moreover, from the very beginning of our dialogue, you tried to make me look like an idiot, as you do with any dissatisfied client.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[jrp]

Well why then did you not take it up with the suppliers directly rather than spamming at least two web sites.  (Rhetorical question, please don't answer.)