Superb new camera profiles and camera & film emulation presets (Cobalt-Image)

[evikne]

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Don't they offer any free samples? I would prefer to try them out before I possibly buy an expensive set of profiles.

[Guest Nowhereman]

2 minutes ago, evikne said:

Don't they offer any free samples? I would prefer to try them out before I possibly buy an expensive set of profiles.

I don't think that Cobalt-Image can offer free samples because their protection against piracy comes from the user having to have the base profile for the camera (M10 in my case). So far, I've only bought the base DNG profile, which I feel is like a custom profile (or better) and which is the basis for the word "superb" in the title of this thread. 

There are good number of useful examples and comparisons in the Fred Miranda thread, although the thread is long. As I recall, the examples of the new Kodak Film emulation start on page 15 or 16 of the thread. 

From the comparisons I've seen online, my feeling is that, of the presets and profiles I've tried (RNI, VSCO, Mastin, Replichrome, The Archetype Process), Cobalt-Image is the only one that actually gives a look that I can associate with the films — the others seem like only a convenient indication of the direction of the processing, if you know what I mean.
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[Simone_DF]

55 minutes ago, evikne said:

Don't they offer any free samples? I would prefer to try them out before I possibly buy an expensive set of profiles.

Copying from the FM thread:

"We are working on a "sampler page" on our website to test two or three ideal images with every profile and emulation released."
 

[otto.f]

2 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Kodachrome on the right

Could be my screen, but do they mean Kodachrome64 here? Seems so… I cannot see a Kodachrome25 in his skintones and red sweater. 

[otto.f]

1 hour ago, evikne said:

Don't they offer any free samples? I would prefer to try them out before I possibly buy an expensive set of profiles.

Not default from the website thus far, but if you send them a mail you can send a file and they are prepared to give some examples, max 3 DNG’s. I asked this Friday and am now waiting for the results. 

Edited July 5, 2021 by otto.f

[Simone_DF]

2 hours ago, otto.f said:

Could be my screen, but do they mean Kodachrome64 here? Seems so… I cannot see a Kodachrome25 in his skintones and red sweater. 

This is the Kodachrome Last Roll:

Kodak Kodachrome Last Roll, our emulation of the generic color reproduction of the last roll of McCurry; we spent months trying to replicate colors and light reproduction of this legendary film.
We offer two different color reproductions: one for bright light conditions, one for low light-indoor.
That is to give more fidelity in the various environments; almost impossible to give a single profile to emulate the complexity of both the Kodak Kodachrome slide and the K14 process.

[bbodine9]

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[250swb]

On 7/5/2021 at 2:02 PM, Simone_DF said:

Sure, here's one.

0 post processing except some cropping.

Adobe on the left, Kodachrome on the right. No other setting touched.

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Way over saturated blocked in reds if trying to represent Kodachrome, no Kodachrome contrast, and the skin tones are on the edge of turning a muddy orange, the 'before' image can be converted far better in Nik Color Efex using the Kodachrome preset. I honestly don't know what you think you guys are looking at but it's not a Kodachrome emulation.

[otto.f]

On 7/5/2021 at 5:07 PM, otto.f said:

Not default from the website thus far, but if you send them a mail you can send a file and they are prepared to give some examples, max 3 DNG’s. I asked this Friday and am now waiting for the results. 

No answer yet though, after one week

[Guest Nowhereman]

4 hours ago, otto.f said:

No answer yet though, after one week

It's a tiny company and they are probably getting a lot of requests. "Ulysseita" has just posted in the Fred Miranda thread that, "In the next weeks, we are working to offer a sampler tool to be able to test on a landscape or a portrait EVERY emulation we are offering": in this post. On the same page, there are some interesting and impressive examples of some of the new emulations — there are also examples from the new Kodak emulation pack on the few pages preceding the one I just linked.

As I posted elsewhere, my feeling is that the Cobalt-Image film emulations are quite different from any of the other preset/profile packs, in that the earlier ones (RNI/VSCO, etc.) just provide a look that, depending on the characteristics of your images, to me at least, represent only an indication, or even just a direction, of a look. On the other hand, the the Cobalt-Image emulations, by starting with an excellent LR profile for your camera, do result in a look that does emulate a film (or a camera in their camera emulations). That doesn't mean that you don't need to do any white balance adjustments or gradation or color adjustments. At this stage, I'm still going only by what I see from the examples on the Fred Miranda thread as I haven't yet bought the Kodak film emulation package because I'm busy doing something else, possibly for a few weeks,  and don't want to get sidetracked.
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Edited July 9, 2021 by Nowhereman

[Guest Nowhereman]

17 hours ago, 250swb said:

Way over saturated blocked in reds if trying to represent Kodachrome, no Kodachrome contrast, and the skin tones are on the edge of turning a muddy orange, the 'before' image can be converted far better in Nik Color Efex using the Kodachrome preset. I honestly don't know what you think you guys are looking at but it's not a Kodachrome emulation.

Miss Congeniality of 2021 has chosen to attack the Kodachrome Last Roll example above, despite @Simone_DF's explanation that no post-processing was done. "Ulysseita" has just  posted a comparison of Kodachrome emulation to Adobe Standard (based on work-in-process" on a new version) that shows the new emulation curves that I wrote about in my post #40 above. Here is the link. 
(Note that the LINEAR curves always require exposure increase — the same as the Raw Photo Processor [RPP] does, and for the same reasons.)
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Edited July 9, 2021 by Nowhereman

[250swb]

1 hour ago, Nowhereman said:

Miss Congeniality of 2021 has chosen to attack the Kodachrome Last Roll example above, despite @Simone_DF's explanation that no post-processing was done. "Ulysseita" has just  posted a comparison of Kodachrome emulation to Adobe Standard (based on work-in-process" on a new version) that shows the new emulation curves that I wrote about in my post #40 above. Here is the link. 
(Note that the LINEAR curves always require exposure increase — the same as the Raw Photo Processor [RPP] does, and for the same reasons.)
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Well I'm in new territory here, but if this works for you please pass on my apologies to the Kodachrome Last Roll preset, explain it wasn't and attack just an observation that it could do better. Meanwhile, back to the real world.

 

[Simone_DF]

20 hours ago, 250swb said:

Way over saturated blocked in reds if trying to represent Kodachrome, no Kodachrome contrast, and the skin tones are on the edge of turning a muddy orange, the 'before' image can be converted far better in Nik Color Efex using the Kodachrome preset. I honestly don't know what you think you guys are looking at but it's not a Kodachrome emulation.

I dumped the same picture in Nik and here's the results. Again, no other post processing.

I like Nik's skin tone better, but the shirt went from red to pink/purple

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[Simone_DF]

I think there's no right or wrong answer here.

I prefer Cobalt's, it gives me a good starting point and more freedom to edit the DNG directly into Lightroom rather than convert it into a different format, tiff, jpg or psd, then import back into Lightroom

Also this is just one Kodachrome preset, there's more than one in the pack!

[250swb]

2 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

I dumped the same picture in Nik and here's the results. Again, no other post processing.

I like Nik's skin tone better, but the shirt went from red to pink/purple

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Your 'before' image I borrowed to try with Nik didn't come out like yours, the reds were much better and I don't know why, but not far off overall, but you see the contrast improvement. I think the takeaway is after three pages of discussion there still isn't a perfect preset package because many variables behind the scenes make a big difference.

The reason I mentioned a difference of interpretation was that it seemed to me too much was being made of this being the package where it is still all down to knowledgeable opinion, and not the instant fix. So while your 'before' image differs from my effort with Nik (maybe because I only tried it with your small JPEG?) it sort of backs up some of the examples on the website and also posted on the forum, if you don't know what the film actually looks like from experience it can be too easy to simply accept the results as accurate, which maybe accounts for the ultimate sacrelage in some people's eyes of 'attacking' a dumb unintelligent preset.

Edited July 9, 2021 by 250swb

[otto.f]

Maybe there is no solution? If you want high ISO sensors, you have to live with compromised or hard to manage colors, is that it?

[Guest Nowhereman]

3 hours ago, otto.f said:

Maybe there is no solution? If you want high ISO sensors, you have to live with compromised or hard to manage colors, is that it?

We're talking on two levels here. At this stage, I have only the DNG basic profile for the M10. If you go through the 20 pages, now, of the Fred Miranda thread, you'll see that most of the time the differences between the Cobalt-Image base profile and the Adobe Standard or Adobe Color or the embedded camera profile (Leica M10 in my case) are small. But, nevertheless, these small differences are crucial in that they are in the colors that are difficult, especially in their combination, such are the yellow-range and red-range colors. But it is these small differences that are crucial because changing one range affects the other range. It is in this sense that the Cobalt-Image base profiles are more accurate. Now, if the difficult color ranges are dominant in the image, especially yellows and reds, the difference between the Cobalt-Image base camera profile and the Adobe and Embedded profiles will be major, as can also be seen in the Fred Miranda thread. "Ulyssesita", on of the Cobalt-Image developers, recently wrote in the Fred Miranda forum, "My personal suggestion is to test the cobalt standard/neutral before going further, the calibrated colors sometimes are just what someone needs...After that, yes, you'll have the freedom to choose the right color fingerprint checking our many solutions of emulation...In the next weeks, we are working to offer a sampler tool to be able to test on a landscape or a portrait EVERY emulation we are offering."

On the second level are the Cobalt-Image film and camera emulations, which I have not yet tried; but, from what I see in the Fred Miranda thread my, feeling about them is that they are much more of a simulation than other profile/preset packs that I've tried: in comparison it feels as if the VSCO/RNI-type of film simulations are like a mnemonic that identifies the direction in which the image will be processed, but their effect is substantially different depending on the specific color and light range of each image. In comparison, the Cobalt-Image film emulations seem, at least to me, to be "real" simulations — look for example at these Velvia 50/Provia/Fuji Pro 400 emulations and at this range of Velvia 50/Fuji Pro 400 emulations.  

Of course, Kodachrome film will look very different both in color and saturation depending how its exposed, and one can always say, "if you want a film look, shoot film" — only you can't do that for Kodachrome, since the processing labs are gone. Nevertheless, it's worthwhile to look at this comparison of Adobe Standard the the Kodachrome pack 1.2 that I linked earlier. 
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[Adam Bonn]

Presets and profiles are like music, not everyone likes the same sounds

Back in the day the VSCO presets offered a .DCP file (base profile) for your camera which uses the default ACR color matrices and forward matrices, but with custom hue sat deltas and probably a custom LUT along with custom tone curves

On top of this they then had more standard preset type edits, such as tone curves/HLS adjustments/grain/split toning that were applied in LR/etc

Cobalt are doing something similar but with the later versions of LR.

No harm in that.

Pre-CC users would be wise to check that Cobalt works with earlier versions of LR, as the current version of LR uses very different ways of implementing all this sort of stuff (.lrtemplate vs .xml for starters...)

[jaapv]

On 7/10/2021 at 11:47 AM, Nowhereman said:

But it is these small differences that are crucial because changing one range affects the other range.

Not really. Both LR and ACR have an effective colour grading tool nowadays.

 

 

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Hallo,

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[Guest Nowhereman]

15 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Not really. Both LR and ACR have an effective colour grading tool nowadays...

The point being, though, if your profile is accurate enough and your white balance set well, you don't have to get into this for much of your work; granted, though, you may occasionally have to — meaning that one would like to avoid doing this, when possible. 
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