Onion rings on new Noctilux 1.2 and APO Summicron 35mm

[meowzilla]

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Anyone still see the "onion ring" bokeh on their new noctulux 1.2 and APO 35? 

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[capo di tutti capi]

Curved field, vignette, glow, not sharp corners - create a 3D effect. If you need straight lenses, look at other manufacturers. Their picture is flat, gray and not beautiful. To understand the leica lens drawing, see full-length portraits at 0.95 lux. Only the center is blurred, the edges are quite sharp. Other lenses have this 3D effect too.

Sorry for my engl

[BastianK]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb capo di tutti capi:

Curved field, vignette, glow, not sharp corners - create a 3D effect. If you need straight lenses, look at other manufacturers. Their picture is flat, gray and not beautiful. To understand the leica lens drawing, see full-length portraits at 0.95 lux. Only the center is blurred, the edges are quite sharp. Other lenses have this 3D effect too.

Sorry for my engl

Interesting that field curvature in combination with optical vignetting (in the ugliest way that makes the corners look/be more in focus) is now considered "3D effect".

If you like this look I recommend the MS-Optics 50mm 1.1 and the wider 24/28mm MS-Optics lenses or using a rangefinder lens on a Sony body.

Edited May 12, 2021 by BastianK

[jaapv]

As for the Noctilux - I have the impression that there is apoint missed here. This is a reissue of a 1966 lens which back then was designed at the limit, one may say beyond the limit, of the technical possibilities of the time. Of course it shows the aberrations and  rendering of the original lens

[Casey Jefferson]

Onion ring bokeh will not disappear by using the lens more. 😝

On a serious note, ultra smooth bokeh isn't Leica lens signature, at least for majority of the lenses. It's what's in focus that matters.

[jaapv]

That is not true. According to Peter Karbe Leica is the company that pays the most attention to the OOF areas in their design, including the sharpness falloff outside the plane of focus that determines DOF.

[Hanno]

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9 hours ago, meowzilla said:

Anyone still see the "onion ring" bokeh on their new noctulux 1.2 and APO 35? 

Deleted. My bad

Edited May 12, 2021 by Hanno

[a.noctilux]

3 hours ago, Casey Jefferson said:

Onion ring bokeh will not disappear by using the lens more. 😝

On a serious note, ultra smooth bokeh isn't Leica lens signature, at least for majority of the lenses. It's what's in focus that matters.

Ultra smooth ?

Depending on lens period and type (designers and "perpose", think Thambar for example with the center ring !) we can't talk of "Leica signature", for me there is any.

Having use dozens of Leitz or Leica lenses, I have not seen "Leica lens signature yet", each lens (Leitz or Leica) is different from the others.

Even in same type of lenses, renderings are different in the long run, so ...

[Casey Jefferson]

Wow, okay...I stand corrected. 🙂

[pedaes]

4 hours ago, jaapv said:

According to Peter Karbe Leica is the company that pays the most attention to the OOF areas in their design

Well, he would say that wouldn't he. 😉

[capo di tutti capi]

8 hours ago, BastianK said:

Interesting that field curvature in combination with optical vignetting (in the ugliest way that makes the corners look/be more in focus) is now considered "3D effect".

Leica lenses create volume and render air with a blurred center, sharp edges and vignette.  https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/297666-show-us-your-noctilux-wide-open-shots/?do=findComment&comment=3748838 

Great masters used vignette in painting, lack of details in the corners. Lack of detail in the background (blurring). Air (tonal perspective). 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rembrandt_Harmensz._van_Rijn_145.jpg

Other lens manufacturers removed all of this and got flat picture. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by capo di tutti capi

[capo di tutti capi]

The 28mm lux lens also has air and volume due to its unsharp center and sharp edges. The vignette also works for volume. 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/299462-show-us-your-summilux-m-28mm-f14-asph-wide-open-shots/?do=findComment&comment=3904523

[BastianK]

Rarely have I read so much nonsense.
Show me the renaissance painter that paints the background of the subject in the center blurry and the corners not.

[capo di tutti capi]

1 hour ago, BastianK said:

Я редко читал столько ерунды.
Покажите мне художника эпохи Возрождения, который рисует фон объекта в центре размытым, а углы - нет.

In this case, we are talking about the fact that the leica lens creates a tonal perspective directly behind the object. Other firms can't do this. The tonal perspective is the air, the fog, the haze. This creates a depth effect.

[capo di tutti capi]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/41670072@N07/31013731577/in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/41670072@N07/42517119614/

Look at the center, then at the edges.

The haze is just behind the object. Tonal perspective.

[anickpick]

I actually agree. It is true for Leica‘s fast lenses.

If you compare the oof rendering of the 28Lux at 1.4 to the 28Cron at 2.0, in the center of the frame the difference is huge. At the side of the frame it is minor. This effect (what you call tonal perspective) is basically what I like about the 28Lux wide open drawing.

I found the same to be true when comparing the Leica 50Lux SL to the Panasonic 50 1.4. While the Pana is optically the better lens in many ways, there is more beauty in the way the Lux draws because of this effect.

Edited May 13, 2021 by anickpick

[jaapv]

2 hours ago, BastianK said:

Rarely have I read so much nonsense.
Show me the renaissance painter that paints the background of the subject in the center blurry and the corners not.

You really should read David Hockley - Secret Knowledge. A lens was an essential tool for renaissance -and later- painters.

[capo di tutti capi]

Artists have always used a reduction in detail and color saturation for non-main characters.. They also used a variety of vignettes and other techniques to create depth and emphasis. That's why I love the leica and voigtlander lenses. They create volume. Even the LEICA SUMMARON-M 28mm, F/5.6 has this character. It does not depend on the starting aperture

Edited May 13, 2021 by capo di tutti capi

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[anickpick]

The 28 Summaron has it because of its crazy field curvature. 

The more modern Summicrons are much better corrected and do not show much of this effect anymore.

[capo di tutti capi]

what pixel pickers think is bad is actually very cool. Lens manufacturers make you appreciate edge-to-edge sharpness, corner-to-corner, clinically clean. They have to sell. I am specifically looking for lenses with a unique pattern. If you remove the air from this photo, it will become flat. Everything will be equally black.

http://flickr.com/photos/danhard/30046293920/in/pool-leicamountain/

This also works if you remove all the "flaws" from the lens. The image will become flat. We can see this in all modern non-leica lenses.

Edited May 13, 2021 by capo di tutti capi