M10 split image movement lag issue

[yukosteel]

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Looks like my M10 has an issue. After numerous random front focus shots with CV 40mm F1.2 on M10 I decided to put camera on a tripod and investigate what is wrong:

• There is a consistent front focus when focusing from infinity toward 2m. Rangefinder split image always matches when focus scale is at about 2.9m
• When focusing from 2m toward infinity, split image always matches at exactly 3m focus scale, and then target is consistently in focus (because distance to target is 3m).

So at least I can focus precisely at F1.2 when rotating ring toward infinity. But what I'm observing in the rangefinder doesn't look right:

• Focusing toward infinity - patch frame is smoothly moving up-left and split image changes. When switch focus direction and very slowly rotating focus ring, patch frame first "jumps" a bit up-left (and split image remains still during that), then patch frame is moving smoothly down-right and split image also changes.
• When switch focus direction toward infinity, patch frame first moves a little down-right and split image remains unchanged, then patch frame starts moving up-left and split image changes.

I don't know how the rangefinder mechanics is built in inside, but it feels like there is some mechanical play that is causing such influencing patch movement lag, and resulting to serious front focus error when focusing toward closer distance.

Is it expected to have such rangefinder lar over time with M10, or it sounds like a problem that need to be serviced?

 

 

[frame-it]

 

[yukosteel]

Thanks for sharing! It's nice to better understand mechanics there.

In case of film camera I'd not hesitate to open it and find what is wrong, though M10 is packed with electronics which is big stopping point.

It's not under warranty, however if it's natural mechanical issue developing over time, I'd still prefer professionals to take care of it. Otherwise, if it's expected M10 rangefinder precision level, then I can just live with it and keep shooting happily using a single focusing direction workaround.

[Explore More]

Try another lens first to determine that it’s really the M10 that has a problem...

 

[yukosteel]

I did that with CV 35mm F1.4 and CV 35 F2 - same results, though lower focusing error due to smaller aperture. The focusing mechanics of CV 40mm F1.2 is precise - no focus lag or rangefinder transmission ring play there.

[jaapv]

8 hours ago, yukosteel said:

 

Is it expected to have such rangefinder lar over time with M10, or it sounds like a problem that need to be serviced?

 

 

You need to send it in. Trying to determine the cause yourself is just wasting time. It is not normal wear. 

[yukosteel]

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3 hours ago, jaapv said:

You need to send it in. Trying to determine the cause yourself is just wasting time. It is not normal wear. 

Thank you for confirming it's not expected, I'll explore the way to send M10 for service.

[jaapv]

Unfortunately you have not filled out your location. If in the EU contact Leica Customer Care for a pick-up label, when elsewhere ask your local Leica representation. Don't send in by yourself, let Leica handle it.

[yukosteel]

23 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Unfortunately you have not filled out your location. If in the EU contact Leica Customer Care for a pick-up label, when elsewhere ask your local Leica representation. Don't send in by yourself, let Leica handle it.

Thank you for details Jaap, I've just filed my profile. Do I understand correct that it's better to visit local Leica dealer where the camera was purchased? I'm the second owner, and the warranty is already expired.

[jaapv]

Best is your local Leica Store, but the dealer should  be able to help out as well.

[yukosteel]

5 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Best is your local Leica Store, but the dealer should  be able to help out as well.

Thanks for the help! I'll visit store soon and keep this thread updated with any progress.

[yukosteel]

It was great experience visiting dealer. Leica store person kindly checked my M10 and easily reproduced problem with Summilux-M 50 f/1.4. When focusing toward closer distance shot has front focus, and when focusing toward infinity - object is perfectly in focus. I've also looked at M10R patch movement - no lag or delays of split-image changes there. So it's definitely something wrong with M10, so they shipped it for CLA.

Will be waiting for news from Leica Repair Department. I'm highly interested to get it repaired, since I'm very often using F1.2 and wider aperture on other mirrorless cameras so having that patch precision fixed is critical for accurate shots.

[TomB_tx]

When focusing toward infinity the lens is moving into the body, forcing the cam follower to move. Focusing from infinity toward closer distance the lens is moving out, so the cam follower is moved by internal spring force. Therefore slight binding in the follower mechanism can cause lag or mis-focus in that direction. The technician will need to find the cause of the binding and cure it. Too often people try to fix just by adding lubricant, but if the cause is mis-alignment or such a lube will be a temporary fix only.

[frame-it]

RF Adjustments

 

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by frame-it

[yukosteel]

I missed opportunity to record the video of patch/dual-image lag problem, so here's a visualization of it.

Correct operation:

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Incorrect operation. Patch jumps first, without changes in dual-image (and focus ring is rotated by 1-2 degrees), and only then starts moving to correct direction and dual-image changes. It is causing "delayed" dual-image merging, which leads to incorrect actual focus:

Edited May 13, 2021 by yukosteel
corrected image descriptions

[yukosteel]

Just received estimate from Leica with items listed in "necessary labours" section:

• adjust roller lever
• adjust range finder

Hopefully that will solve the patch lag problem. Does anyone know if Leica provides any post-repair warranty in case the initial warranty expires?

[yukosteel]

Good news, after almost 3 months of waiting I received M10 back, successfully repaired. Now this M10 is focusing precisely again : )

Thanks for good hints and suggestions.

[Photon42]

Thanks for the feedback, @yukosteel - not everyone does that after receiving tips and help. Congrats on your finally fixed M10, event though Leica still needs to work on their service turn-around times.