Advice on 50mm M mount lens on SL (SL2): Summilux or Summicron APO?

[omega1848]

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Champs,

what are your opinion on manual M mount lens on a SL (or SL2)?

I am torn between the much more expensive M-50mm/2 Summicron APO or the classic recent M-50mm/1.4 Summilux - which one to choose?
Is APO really required or does the Summilux does the job to 90% - since you are manually focusing and introducing more "nailing the focus" (even with focus peaking and the excellent viewfinder on both SL/ SL2) errors which "overlay" the last few percentage of the better quality Summicron APO?
I was trying to scan thru the SL (SL2) picture thread, but it was hard to find enough APO Summicron/ Summliux pictures at ease to compare.

Thanks so much!!!

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[didier]

You will find a lot of posts and answers in the M Lenses section.

For example : 

 

Didier

[chris_tribble]

If you’re using the SL, I’d strongly recommend getting the native SL 50 that best suits your needs. I’ve used the M 50 Lux on my SL2 and it’s nothing like as good an experience as the SL 50 APO. 
I’m sticking with my trusty M 50 Lux on M bodies (and my 35 Summicron asph, and 28 Summicron asph) and buying into the superb (and relatively affordable) APO glass for the SL system. 

[omega1848]

Thanks for the links above, but I am not 100% convinced that they behave the same on SL as on M, or am totally wrong?

 

[beewee]

12 minutes ago, omega1848 said:

Thanks for the links above, but I am not 100% convinced that they behave the same on SL as on M, or am totally wrong?

 

Not sure about the 50 Summilux ASPH but the 50 APO Summicron-M definitely performs better in the corners on the M as compared to the SL.

[didier]

37 minutes ago, omega1848 said:

Thanks for the links above, but I am not 100% convinced that they behave the same on SL as on M, or am totally wrong?

 

The Leica M 50s perform perfectly with the SL.

I agree with @chris_tribble if you want to fully use the potential of your Combo, using a SL 50 is best.

The size of the M glass is great on the SL as it is far less bulky than the L glass, but to get perfect focus you need to focus wide open and then go to the aperture you want. It slows things down compared to using M glass on a M.

I only use my ‘big’ M Lenses on the SL (Noct .95, lux 75, Summicron ApoAsph 90), and wide open. Focusing is quick and more precise than with the M.

 

Didier

 

[ravinj]

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2 hours ago, omega1848 said:

Champs,

what are your opinion on manual M mount lens on a SL (or SL2)?

I am torn between the much more expensive M-50mm/2 Summicron APO or the classic recent M-50mm/1.4 Summilux - which one to choose?
Is APO really required or does the Summilux does the job to 90% - since you are manually focusing and introducing more "nailing the focus" (even with focus peaking and the excellent viewfinder on both SL/ SL2) errors which "overlay" the last few percentage of the better quality Summicron APO?
I was trying to scan thru the SL (SL2) picture thread, but it was hard to find enough APO Summicron/ Summliux pictures at ease to compare.

Thanks so much!!!

Hello Leica User - "Really required" and "does the job to 90%" are all subjective. Zeiss Planar ZM 50 F2 can do the job and it is a solid lens at 1/10th the price.

Obviously if you like F1.4, Summilux is the way to go. Technically the APO is better, but I feel Summilux-M is unique. I also agree with Chris on getting the native SL 50 APO Summicron for the SL2. Yes, it is large and heavy compared to the M options, but it does the job "100%". OTOH if the goal is small and light, I would not use the SL2 body itself.

I had the 50 M APO  50 'Lux M (latest version). Sold both, though regret selling the 'Lux. 50 APO M is horrible at flare control even with the more recent versions - the tiny hood is ineffective. I am happy with the SL 50 APO Summicron - a beast compared to the 50 M lenses, but worth it. Nice hood, superb AF and extremely nice rendering.  

[ravinj]

13 minutes ago, didier said:

to get perfect focus you need to focus wide open and then go to the aperture you want

Why would that be? I always focus at the aperture I want when using manual focus lenses on the SL2, including M lenses. 

[didier]

Just now, ravinj said:

Why would that be? I always focus at the aperture I want when using manual focus lenses on the SL2, including M lenses. 

If you focus at f5.6 or smaller (for example) you will have too much DoF to see the plane of focus. At least I do.

This really is a problem for me especially at close distances as DoF is shallower 

[ravinj]

Ok, fair point. So long as the lens is free of focus shift it works. 

[didier]

6 hours ago, ravinj said:

Ok, fair point. So long as the lens is free of focus shift it works. 

Yes. Both the APO and the ‘lux Asph are 

[Pixeleater]

I have an M10R and SL2-S and only shoot with M glass on both. 28 1.4, 50 1.4 and 50 APO. Two different experiences and both are superb. EVF does help me focus more quickly shooting wide open. 

[omega1848]

Do you see any ‚major‘ disadvantages of the Summilux vs. the APO Summicron? Is it significant softer wide open or more proun to purple finging?

and don‘ get me wrong, i am not looking for complaints or wanna complain, I am seriously thinking to use my M-lenses on potential SL, since I am not sure yet if i will stay within the M system or switch towards SL, but need to watch close on my budget, therefore native SL lenses are out of reach for the next time period...

Edited April 3, 2021 by omega1848

[BernardC]

4 hours ago, omega1848 said:

Do you see any ‚major‘ disadvantages of the Summilux vs. the APO Summicron? Is it significant softer wide open or more proun to purple finging?

and don‘ get me wrong, i am not looking for complaints or wanna complain, I am seriously thinking to use my M-lenses on potential SL, since I am not sure yet if i will stay within the M system or switch towards SL, but need to watch close on my budget, therefore native SL lenses are out of reach for the next time period...

The SL series are some of the best non-rangefinder cameras ever for manual focus. I know many people will tell you that you "need" to buy AF lenses, but that's only the case if you need AF. Personally, I would rather pick my own plane of focus, rather than have AI pick it for me. It's the cornerstone to my composition, and I don't care to be second-guessed by the camera.

The 'lux is a bit softer than the APO 'cron, as you would expect, but not by much. It was the sharpest 50mm you could get, anywhere, until the APO came along.

[t00l1024]

50mm junkie here....

I have the APO 50-M for my M10M, the APO 50-SL for my SL2, and a Zeiss Planar 50 for my M6. Used to own a 50 Lux.

You ask, "does the Summilux does the job to 90%?" -- What "job" are you referring to? I believe most folks here pick lenses for whatever character they're interested in. I absolutely love the resulting images of the APOs. The only reason I have an APO  for each body is a desire for AF on the SL2, and to be able to shoot both cameras simultaneously (without lens swapping).

The APO-M on the SL2 is absolutely fantastic, IMHO. Every now and then, I'll use the M version on the SL2 for fun and it's spectacular.

[Pixeleater]

5 hours ago, omega1848 said:

Do you see any ‚major‘ disadvantages of the Summilux vs. the APO Summicron? Is it significant softer wide open or more proun to purple finging?

and don‘ get me wrong, i am not looking for complaints or wanna complain, I am seriously thinking to use my M-lenses on potential SL, since I am not sure yet if i will stay within the M system or switch towards SL, but need to watch close on my budget, therefore native SL lenses are out of reach for the next time period...

I suggest you ask your Leica store to provide a body and lens for a few hours to use and evaluate the SL2/M lens combo. Assuming proximity to the store, etc.

[ravinj]

8 hours ago, omega1848 said:

Do you see any ‚major‘ disadvantages of the Summilux vs. the APO Summicron? Is it significant softer wide open or more proun to purple finging?

and don‘ get me wrong, i am not looking for complaints or wanna complain, I am seriously thinking to use my M-lenses on potential SL, since I am not sure yet if i will stay within the M system or switch towards SL, but need to watch close on my budget, therefore native SL lenses are out of reach for the next time period...

Go with the Summilux. Depending on where you buy from, you can get used ones in excellent condition for $3k - $3.3k and can be sold later with no or little "loss". There is no bad Leica M or Zeiss ZM lens. All are superb. 

[Photoworks]

20 hours ago, omega1848 said:

Do you see any ‚major‘ disadvantages of the Summilux vs. the APO Summicron? Is it significant softer wide open or more proun to purple finging?

and don‘ get me wrong, i am not looking for complaints or wanna complain, I am seriously thinking to use my M-lenses on potential SL, since I am not sure yet if i will stay within the M system or switch towards SL, but need to watch close on my budget, therefore native SL lenses are out of reach for the next time period...

to keep in mind that the focusing technique on the SL is different than M cameras.

In my opinion M lenses make sense if you focus a lens wide open, if you mostly shoot 1,4 to f2.8 this lenses work beautiful . If you are shooting mostly 5.6 to 11 I would get the SL50 lens.

I also have the 21mm 3.4. This lens even magnified it is hard to focus because it is hard to define where focus starts. I suppose peeking helps.
I shoot both on the SL2 and I like the smaller size of the Summilux-Mand the Noctilux. I mostly don't take out the SL50 for the weight and I like the look of 1.4.

to the characteristics of the lenses.

Summilux M 50 and 35 have a more pronounce Leica pop. if you look at portraits of subject centered you will see that the out of focus area directly behind the subject is more blurry and gradually more in focus as it goes to the borders. This will make your subject stand out much more and it is a very pleasing image. that mens that often un the lux R and M lenses the plane of focus is not flat and little softer in the corners. This is a future that so many photographers look for in a 1.4 Lens.

The 50 APO M has a more corrected image. Sharpness across the frame and more details. Bokeh is busy with sharper edges of lights. Well corrected for CA just like most APO lenses.
The Summilux M has excellent sharpness at 1.4. Softer looking bokeh, more than most 50's of 1.4. wide open less details then 50 APO at f2, this is good for portraits.

The 50 APO SL is sharp, well corrected, big, heavy. To me little bit boring look. I like to show magic and not sharp reality, I mostly take the 0.95 or 1.4 Leica lens.

 

 

is you look on my gallery you can find many example with Noctilux , Summilux  and APO SL

https://www.instagram.com/kroke/

 

Edited April 4, 2021 by Photoworks

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[omega1848]

Thanks so much for all of your input, help and advice! This is great!

[trickness]

The M 50 Lux has a totally different look than the SL glass wide open, really dreamy falloff after the focus point at 1.4 - the 50 SL is beautiful but “correct” and super sharp. Lots of happy accidents with the M glass at 1.4 because you’re manually focused with razor thin DOF. If you have to nail focus every time and are a sharpness junkie that doesn’t mind the weight, the SL50 2.0 is great. But as an artistic tool, the 50 M Lux still has the magic, if you dedicate yourself to mastering it.

Some of my best photos were taken on the SL with the M 50 Lux, it’s fantastic. Just make sure to get the Leica brand adapter, not a cheaper knock off.

Edited April 7, 2021 by trickness